Package: lists.debian.org At least one listmaster bans arbitrarily.
There is a relevant discussion about this at https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2013/10/msg00090.html An example of a user replying to an arbitrary ban is attached. "Dia dels Reis Mags". That's a good one. King Vorlon delivering some coal to the naughty kid. I send a carbon copy to Steve, since he's taken the lead in this issue. CC for Patty, she may be able to help since I am obviously unable to talk reason into Steve. Steve replied to the attached message with this: https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2014/01/msg00051.html He proved the ban is arbitrary. He couldn't just publish the ban right after the banning cause. The banning message and the references weren't good enough explanation. He had to wrap it up and publish out of context. He mentions additional rationale. Listmasters haven't made it public. Even with this alleged additional rationale, Steve had to express his public support to the listmasters. He needed to provide further reasons because those in the banning message weren't enough. Although the listmaster did such a great job, something to be proud about, Steve had to omit his name. Steve agreed that I deserved a ban. He didn't agree to this specific ban. When he quotes https://lists.debian.org/debian-user-catalan/2013/12/msg00055.html he misrepresents the context. Who did complain about "sex testing the speakers"? Steve didn't. That's a "ban first, make up an excuse later" policy. Misrepresenting wasn't enough, he had to mistranslate my words. "If you don't like it, you don't have to agree with it". Go to communion, be in common, agree. There's quite a difference between "agree" and "read". "Implicit promise", are you serious? So users must be banned because they could misbehave instead of because they did misbehave. Sorry, Steve. You have twisted information behind the safety of a ban, so that I couldn't reply. You've shown power, not reason. There's no chance in hell you'll ever teach me morals. Solving this bug is easy. If you ban in a rush, you're prone to make mistakes. Just define the banning protocol, like any other Debian process. If you're concerned about abuse, then refine the protocol, quantify the abuse. Steve, talk to Patty. Listen to her. Think. Think about the project. Then do whatever you must do. This is a bug report. I have provided enough information. Unless explicitly requested, I won't submit more feedback.
-------- Missatge reenviat -------- De: Javier Serrano Polo <[email protected]> Reply-to: [email protected] Per a: Alexander Wirt <[email protected]> CC: Steve Langasek <[email protected]> Assumpte: Re: Your attitude on debian mailinglists Data: Wed, 08 Jan 2014 05:27:42 +0100 OMG! I... I don't know what to say (lie). I am so flattered. First of all, I'd like to thank Steve for starting this thread (publishing bans) https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2013/10/msg00090.html He just turned my thoughts into bytes. At first I thought this was a clever joke, but my messages don't reach the list. I am actually banned. This is just awesome! Okay, let me guess, you're mad at me 'cause I've said Alex is a girl's name (sorry, it is). Let me try another, it's because I told you that mangling case in a local-part is against RFC 5321; come on, pal, nobody knows 'em all. A likely one, you simply can't stand complaints. Although I like to believe that MartÃn Ferrari has misled you to ban me. In this case, your defense would be to disclose what he has reported. But even in this case, you just banned me downright, no previous warning from you. Indeed, banning is usually the last action you take. First and last this time, I must say. Even if I publish your ban outside Debian, since (in theory) I can't write to the lists, it would be quite easy to forge such a message. Show some courage, man. Whether right or wrong, sign your banning messages; a bit of accountability for your own actions. So please, pretty pleaze, I beg you to publish your ban, even this very message, right after your "last straw" reference. Show your users they are rightfully protected. It will be an honor. El dt 07 de 01 de 2014 a les 17:59 +0100, Alexander Wirt va escriure: > Hi, > > I'm writing to you in my role as one of the debian listmasters. We currently > have several complaints from users about your behaviour on > [email protected] [1][2]. > > This behaviour is not acceptable on our lists and will not be tolerated. You > may have a look on the code of conduct [3] and the netiquette, if you plan to > communicate with other opensource projects in the future. > > Therefore we decided to ban you from all of our lists. > > Alex - on behalf of the debian listmasters > > P.S. this ban is not public unless you publish it on your own > > [1] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user-spanish/2013/12/msg00539.html > [2] https://lists.debian.org/debian-user-catalan/2014/01/msg00012.html > [3] http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct
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