Hello Helge Kreutzmann, Sorry if my comments sounded too negative, some more reasoning below.
On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 04:35:47PM +0200, Helge Kreutzmann wrote: > Hello Andreas Henriksson, > I'm a bit puzzled by your e-mail. Simon asked me to provide some text, > Chris prodded me and Davide and Simon reviewed my text (which does not > imply that it is perfect or so). [...] > Well, I think for _Debian_ users the change *is* suprising, but only > because the su version (and its configuration / behaviour) has > changed. [...] If the change in behaviour isn't something we can just live with I think solving it via pam configuration seems like the best course of action. Please see the mail I just quickly banged together and sent to debian-devel (with you BCCed). [...] > Which is clearly not the case here. So upstreaming is no option. Carrying patches downstream forever isn't something I'm very enthusiastic about as you probably understand. As you might have also noticed I've removed myself from util-linux maintenance (lack of time). I thus don't really see it suitable for me to add patches like this that someone else gets to maintain, but anyone with upload privilegies can upload a NMU themselves ofcourse! (so there's no need to wait for me to do it.) OTOH please consider I've spent years to back util-linux out of the corner it was stuck in. Non upstreamed/upstreamable patches was part of the problem. I would very much appreciate some sympathy on that rather than pushing things back into the corner as soon as I turn my back. ;P [...] > Thanks. But as stated earlier, having it in NEWS is only part of the > solution, [...] I'd even call it a workaround which simply serves the purpose of me not having to touch the pam configuration with zero peer review. (And I also doubt more people read manpages than read NEWS. Targeting release notes might be a much better option. Things that aren't new but just best practises we want to spread the knowledge of might be better suited for debian-handbook or similar....) It seems to me that the pam configuration, even ignoring the current implementation differences, is long overdue for an overhaul (based on the bug reports zeha reassigned). Hopefully we can get a discussion going on what a suitable pam configuration should look like and get enough people involved to make a good tradeoff and get all changes peer reviewed. I however fear that everyone who has prior PAM knowledge knows how easy it is to get things wrong and are smart enough to keep their hands away. Possibly we might need to find new people who haven't already cut themselves on pam configuration to become interested and involved, and learn as they go (to eventually also learn to never touch pam configuration ever again). Sorry for sending another sloppy mail today, but hopefully you can make some sense of what I wrote. Really need to attend personal things now instead.... Final words, don't expect me to actually maintain util-linux anymore. Don't wait for me to upload what you think is sensible. Regards, Andreas Henriksson
