Hello Stefan, On 24/07/2022 13:02, Stefan Kropp wrote:
I have been started to look into live system generation (live-build), Be honest, I have never been used a Debian Live CD. Few days/weeks back I looked into the live CD which are provided by Debian (live-wrapper).
Your timing is rather unfortunate. At the moment there are no recent (i.e. bookworm/sid) live images being generated and the snapshot server that I use to generate them was shut down during DebConf22.
However, yesterday I updated the script to generate live-build-based images such that can be run without a snapshot server.
See the recently updated Wiki page (https://wiki.debian.org/ReproducibleInstalls/LiveImages) in the section 'Building'
I also think, it is very important to provide live-systems also for the next releases.
I'm working on that, but it needs more time.
I have been looked into: * debian-live-11.4.0-amd64-standard.iso (1,1G / 800 packages) * debian-live-11.4.0-amd64-xfce.iso (2,5G / 2270 packages) * debian-live-11.4.0-amd64-gnome.iso (2,7G / 2572 packages)
The live-build sid-based GNOME image is now 3.2GB / 2540 packages You could download a recent GNOME live image from openQA: https://openqa.debian.net/tests/65162/asset/iso/gnome_sid_20220711T170000Zdeb.isoThe tests that running are at: https://openqa.debian.net/tests/overview?distri=debian&version=sid&build=20220711T170000Z_sid&groupid=14
I'm wondering if we should refine those images. Maybe the Debian Project and the users can benefit from it.
These images use the meta-package 'live-task-XXXX' to select which packages belong to each desktop. E.g live-task-gnome depends on task-gnome-desktop. Any adjustment can take place in these meta-packages.
One of the live images is called "standard". What does standard means? What can the user do with the "standard" image?
The standard image does not contain a graphical desktop. It could have been called 'text' as well.
I looked into xfce and gnome. The gnome image also includes few games,evolution and thunderbird. xfce doesn't have a mailclient at all.
You might want to report a bug against live-task-xfce or task-xfce-desktop to add a mail client.
I think one person at the BoF said, it's not necessary to build a image for every desktop manager. Personally, I agree.
For the record, that was Mrfai.While my time is still limited, I will also (have to) focus on a few images at first.
I asked myself: * Who will use the live system? * Why will somebody use the live system? * When should we provide a Debian Pure Blend? Who will use the live system? Everybody! Why will somebody use the live system? Everything! It may helpful we the project defines some images with a scope. Maybe something like this,.. # Rescue Disk Image An image for a live system to rescues a broken system. It may have a set of useful tool, but may not have a X-Server. Powerful editor, maybe also gnu compilers and manpages and screen / tmux. This is not just a 'small' Rescue Disk Image this will be a real powerful Debian system (without X).
I don't want to discourage you, but there are already several Debian-derivatives that do a good job. Also the Debian-installer (from the boot menu) has some rescue capability (not tried by me yet)
# Calamares-Installer Live System to provide the Calamares-Installer. The live system can be used to install Debian with Calamares. (I haven't used it - I can not give much feedback, yet)
The Calamares installer is targeted at a broader audience. At the moment there is no automated test yet in openQA. <snip>
The use case is: "Let's try Debian and see what it is". The result: "It's awesome!" To achieve this result, we need to have a good set of pre-installed applications. Now, pure blends come in. I think the goal of the pure blends is exactly what we need for Desktop / Office / Junior / Med / ... The 'experts' (blends team) knows which packages are required / helpful / working.
Agreed.
One idea would be to provide packages like
debian-{desktop,office,med,junior}-live-system
Those packages will include a well defined structure to build the
live-system images via live-build.
<snip> You can use a 'Tasks' meta package for that.
Personally, I think it would be much better to provide "soon" the possible to access to the pure blends, instead to "wait" a long time until we are able to find a nice solution for a hierarchical selection. Sure, if somebody is able to provide a solution, it's fine.
You can file an ITP for the 'task-debian-junior' metapackage.
We should also work on a README.html / pdf file as a first "Welcome" and guide new users where they can get more help. Links to pre-installed documentation, Debian Wiki pages, Debian Local Groups. I have created a small example of a Debian Desktop live system. https://salsa.debian.org/StefanKropp/debian-desktop-live-system/
The 'Welcome to Debian' is a separate topic. I'll respond later. With kind regards, Roland Clobus
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