One more point: Part of our strategy is to include debian package repositories hosted inside of Google, and it'd be lovely to see those as a "first tier" mirror for Debian, so that we're in on the "ground floor" for updates. Our current approach has some VMs set up to do the mirroring, so I think that we can set things up so that things just work.
-david On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 8:12 PM, David McWherter <[email protected]> wrote: > 1) Providing "google custom kernels" in debian seems a moot point. > Google Compute injects its kernel into RAM and boots a disk off of it. > No kernel on disk is required or even examined. Within the year, we > should be booting whatever kernel is on your image. Let's not > engineer mediocre solutions for the short-term. > > 2) Google definitely would like "Debian" (in some way, shape, or > form), to "own" the customer experience of getting the latest and > greatest images and whatnot. I think it's clear that finding people > who want to have ongoing relationships with the Google Compute team > would be ideal. Keeping the communication "open" is most > constructive. > > -david > > > > On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 7:11 PM, Jimmy Kaplowitz <[email protected]> > wrote: >> [+David] >> >> Hi Brian, >> >> A couple of responses to the steps you said might help for "Official" Debian >> images: >> >> 1) It's too late to get any new custom kernel package into either squeeze or >> wheezy. The Google-provided kernels have their source released as one would >> hope, but are not built from a Debian package (nor are they used only with >> Debian). This issue should go away once arbitrary kernel support is >> available in Google Compute Engine, but it won't be solved in the next month >> or two, by which point we hope to have properly publicized these images and >> have users using them. >> >> 2) As I understand it, people in Debian are already packaging >> build-debian-cloud (f/k/a ec2debian-build-ami) for jessie. This is great. >> While gcutil and gsutil are free software, the pace of development is such >> that more thought is probably warranted on what the ideal situation is for >> their packaging and where such packaging would live. If David and/or I make >> it to DebConf13, this could be one of many fruitful topics of discussion. As >> with point 1, we're hoping to publicize these quite soon, so any packaging >> would necessarily happen some time after we properly announce these and gain >> users, not before. >> >> My hope is that neither of these is a blocker for official Debian status. >> Either way, I would encourage the policy for official Debian images to be >> documented somewhere other than email archives, and for the parts of the >> policymaking which don't involve attorney-client privileged communications >> to occur on relevant public Debian lists like this one. :) >> >> As for who publishes: My work on this is part of my day job, but that >> doesn't mean it isn't in keeping with my role as a Debian developer as well. >> Plenty of other non-DD Googlers are helping generally with this effort as >> part of their day jobs, but so far I'm the only one who has made images for >> the debian-cloud project. If Debian prefers only DDs to make these images, >> it shouldn't be a problem, especially if DD volunteers are interested so >> that I'm not a bottleneck. I will definitely send out a call for volunteers >> email, since nobody has yet reacted to that bit of my debian-cloud >> announcement email. (Any DDs reading this: feel free to volunteer!) >> >> - Jimmy >> >> On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 6:23 PM, Brian Gupta <[email protected]> >> wrote: >>> On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 7:51 PM, Jimmy Kaplowitz <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>>> On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 12:49 PM, Stefano Zacchiroli <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 09:56:31AM -0700, Clint Byrum wrote: >>>>> > The trademark policy is not clear on describing things which contain >>>>> > Debian itself. If HPCS adds a special super whiz-bang open source but >>>>> > HP cloud only thing to the images, its not clear that they can or >>>>> > cannot call that Debian still. It would be good for the project to >>>>> > make the policy on images clear at http://www.debian.org/trademark . >>>>> >>>>> I agree with that. In fact: the "public cloud market place" scenario was >>>>> one of the motivating factor for revamping the trademark policy, even if >>>>> in the end we didn't end up detailing that specific use case (we >>>>> probably should). This is mainly because until very recently we didn't >>>>> have much concrete evidence of "official" Debian images to benchmark >>>>> against. >>>>> >>>>> Note, however, that the trademark policy does offer a sane default: in >>>>> case of doubt, you should ask permission before calling your image >>>>> "Debian". >>>> >>>> >>>> I'm glad I'm reading this thread - it's definitely something I'll want >>>> to follow up on for Google's images as well, since they do add three >>>> debs specific to the Google Compute Engine environment, as well as >>>> Google's gsutil and gcutil tools via tarballs extracted sensibly under >>>> /usr/local. All of them are free software under the Apache License >>>> 2.0. The images we've put into the debian-cloud project so far have >>>> been uploaded by a Debian developer - namely me - and we arranged >>>> things explicitly so that non-Googler DDs can be granted the access to >>>> upload official images. >>> >>> Jimmy, >>> >>> James Bromberger, a DD was is an employee of Amazon, is currently >>> solely responsible for maintaining the "official" EC2 images. He does >>> this with his "Debian hat" on. >>> >>> I believe, if you were willing to maintain the GCE images yourself, >>> with or without other DDs helping you, you should be able to work out >>> an arrangement that you are the (or one of the) maintainer(s) of >>> "Official Debian images" for GCE. From reading back through email >>> archives, it's clear that there is an expectation that DDs need to >>> build and maintain "Official" images. >>> >>> If you wanted to follow this route there are still a couple of bugs >>> that probably should be filed and addressed: >>> >>> 1) Custom kernel required -- I don't know if this is a show stopper >>> bug, or perhaps it could be addressed in the mean time by a custom GCE >>> kernel package that is included in Debian, and built and mantained by >>> DDs. >>> 2) Packages being created for the tools required to handle instance >>> instantiation. >>> >>> I you went this route, I don't believe any special trademark request >>> would need to be submitted, but I would follow up with leader@ to >>> confirm the process and requirements. (This is all pretty new, so if >>> anyone on this list has any thoughts, they should feel free to share.) >>> >>> However, if you wanted to publish images with your Google hat on, and >>> have other Googlers who aren't DDs helping you, and call these images >>> "Debian", then you'd likely want to have someone write to trademark@ >>> and submit a use request. (Since this falls into the "when in doubt" >>> clause of the TM policy.) These would not be "Official images" but >>> it's probable that your team would be granted usage rights to the >>> Debian TM. >>> >>> My suggestion, since everything seems to be in place to allow >>> non-Googlers to upload images, would be a new thread calling for DD >>> volunteers to help you build and maintain images, as I think all would >>> benefit if there were only "official debian images" for GCE. (You >>> could also try [email protected], if you wanted to widen your net for potential >>> volunteers.) >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Brian >>> >>>> is a clarification to the trademark policy planned, or should I have >>>> someone email trademarks@ on behalf of Google to confirm permission >>>> before any broader announcement? We're hoping to make a couple of >>>> announcements mentioning these images in the next several weeks (I'll >>>> say more about that in a different thread). >>>> >>>> - Jimmy >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [email protected] >>>> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact >>>> [email protected] >>>> Archive: >>>> http://lists.debian.org/cajbdudu0oznanukkobwrprqptc4c4dhw_xkz8ovxqtwgwp6...@mail.gmail.com >>>> -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [email protected] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [email protected] Archive: http://lists.debian.org/cag0yj4jtxkd6a4abbsndmt8zu2cg1ewrvoh3svwjqzg1mg6...@mail.gmail.com
