On Sunday, October 14, 2012 16:27:29, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: > ]] Ian Jackson > > > This is particularly true when these users have already decided not to > > take the maintainer's advice. By the decision not to install n-m, > > those users have already overruled the maintainer for their own > > systems. To say that we think the maintainer knows best is going > > against the clearly expressed opinion of a user who has deliberately > > deinstalled n-m. > > .. or who just has an old system which didn't have Recommends > installation enabled by default, or where it's been disabled since > Recommends end up dragging in all kinds of stuff.
This again is a user choice, which the upgrade to Depends would override. More importantly, this is /not/ a user choice that someone /new/ to Debian would make; it takes experience to find out that this option exists, and in setting the option the /user/ takes responsibility for the resulting behavior, because the setting /overrides/ the default behavior. > It's a bit late now, but when we changed the default for Recommends to > be on by default, we should have purged the archive of existing > Recommends. ... you mean by removing /all/ user choices? Why are user options being /feared/ here? > > And, as you say, reinstalling n-m during the upgrade is deeply > > problematic. At the very best it will have no beneficial > > effect until the user take explicit action to reconfigure their > > networking to use n-m. There is of course no particular reason why it > > would be difficult for a user who changed their mind to reinstall n-m > > as and when they felt like it - under conditions where they are > > prepared for a failure of their networking and have the time and > > inclination to reconfigure. > > At best, it will mean the user who previously had a working networking > menu still has one after the upgrade. wicd, from what's been told here, > does not integrate at all with gnome-shell, meaning those users are now > left without an obvious way to configure their networking. > > I don't think that's in the users's best interest either. The fact that wicd-gtk doesn't integrate into the Gnome3 shell is unfortunate, however that fact is now being used to excuse *breaking* users of wicd, and simultaneously leaving them *clueless* as to the cause, with only an error of "bad password" to work with. n-m does not have "Breaks: wicd-daemon" in the control field of the package, there is no mention of breaking wicd in any of the n-m documentation, nor how to disable n-m via and update-rc.d command. I find your mention of "user's best interest" illogical here, because right up to this point of the email the argument is all about *overriding* user choice, and regretting not doing so even more. How can /overriding/ the user be in the user's best interest? -- Chris -- Chris Knadle [email protected] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [email protected] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [email protected] Archive: http://lists.debian.org/[email protected]
