On Sun, Jul 20, 2008, Neil Williams wrote: > How would you relicence it in a manner that prevents use in Ubuntu but > retains DFSG compatibility to remain in Debian main? [...] > I ask because emdebian-tools isn't intended for Ubuntu either. See [0] - > emdebian-tools also depends on server resources provided only by Debian > (in this case, the package repositories containing compatible packages > which I can use to generate cross-dependencies). > > "emdebian-tools is not intended for Ubuntu but I don't have a way of > encoding that in the package. " [...]
We had exactly the same conversation over email, but since you didn't reply to my last email, perhaps you didn't get it? Anyway, as I would reply in basically the same ways, allow me to repeat a slightly edited response below: On Wed, Jul 16, 2008, Neil Williams wrote: > In a word: binaries. > > It is a bootstrapping problem - to build packages, you need the > dependencies. Ubuntu does not have any ARM packages and the packages > that we need to use are the ones with the most changes between Debian > and Ubuntu. The patches that we use are Debian-specific. I certainly hear you concerning missing binaries; this is likely to change soonish with armel: I suppose Emdebian will move to armel soonish (as arm will probably be dropped in favor of armel post lenny), and Ubuntu will soon start an armel port as well (based on Debian's). However I don't quite get the "patches" part. Ubuntu basically "rebases" on a new Debian snapshot every six months; this just happened for Ubuntu "intrepid" suite, so anything which happened on the Debian side should also be present in the Ubuntu side. > http://www.linux.codehelp.co.uk/serendipity/index.php?/archives/122-Migrating-Em debian-changes-into-Debian,-not-Ubuntu.html Ah I recall that blog post; I recall I wanted to write a reply to it too, but never came to it. Allow me to come back to your blog post now if you don't mind: 1) you're saying Launchpad is another web-login to carry; I'm happy to report that Launchpad is moving to openid [already commented in this thread] 2) you're explaining that nobody cared about a bug filed against emdebian-tools in Ubuntu in a long time; that's certainly sad, the same could be said about many Debian bugs too, and many other Ubuntu bugs; because Debian packages are automatically imported into Ubuntu, this might happen; I personally think it's more beneficial for people intereted in random Debian packages which have been auto-imported to continue this way; this might be problematic for e.g. security sensitive packages, but I don't see why it would be for emdebian 3) "emdebian-tools is not intended for Ubuntu but I don't have a way of encoding that in the package"; I think it's hard to tell from your side what derivatives would /not/ be interested in; I believe there are very little packages which are truly distro specific: perhaps keyrings or meta packages, and I'm not even sure. Consider debootstrapping Debian from Ubuntu or vice versa, pbuilding in the same combinations, or creating virtual machines. The same could apply to emdebian tools; of course there's no official Ubuntu arm port, but did you know that Nokia built many of the last Ubuntu releases for arm with almost zero modifications? Ubuntu is also preparing an armel port. So I'm not sure it's easy to tell whether emdebian is suitable for Ubuntu or not. Certainly using the criteria of native versionning of a package is not a good criteria to decide. > emdebian-tools is tightly integrated into Debian (and Debian unstable in > particular) and is, naturally, a Debian native package (it was written > to support Embedded Debian after all, not UbuntuMobile). I don't think bringing Ubuntu Mobile in there is related at all. Ubuntu Mobile itself (nowadays also known as Ubuntu MID) is currently quite unrelated to Emdebian; some reasons for this: 1) Ubuntu Mobile targets lpia and only lpia for now; this is like x86 2) the UI is hildon and moblin based and images are built with moblin tools and patches but moblin packages aren't in Debian at all 3) arm isn't a target nor is cross-building; packages are built natively 4) special patches are applied on lpia and lpia only, hence any other architecture wouldn't work without some porting; yes, that's ugly :-( So, yes, Ubuntu Mobile wouldn't make a good use of Emdebian tools because it's unrelated; however there might be interest for these tools from an Ubuntu environment. > It isn't > intended to work on Ubuntu because Ubuntu does not provide the foreign > packages needed for linking when cross building, those come exclusively > from Debian. Same with apt-cross, it is exclusively designed for Debian, > Debian mirrors and Debian buildd configurations. How is emdebian-tools > meant to cross-build for ARM on Ubuntu when Ubuntu does not provide ARM > packages and makes changes to the equivalent Debian packages? To me it > seems highly unlikely that cross versions of Debian packages would > install over a Ubuntu base, especially when those packages are the > typical debootstrap selection that have a variety of changes in Ubuntu. i) all the packages you mention (patched packages and tools) are being imported and updated in Ubuntu regularly ii) you might want to build Debian based images from an Ubuntu env iii) an Ubuntu arm port might as well exist outside of the Ubuntu official mirrors, just like the Nokia one, or might come to life later on -- Loïc Minier -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]