Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 12:58:44 +0100 > Steffen Joeris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>>>I still have a hard time understanding the difference between >>>>skolelinux development and Debian development. I have no interest in >>>>building up a parallel to Debian. >>> >>>Who talks about that? > > This thread: > > Consolidating and expanding the organisation around development of > Skolelinux instead of using the already-existing resources of Debian is > building up a parallel to Debian.
We are not building something in paralell to Debian, We are extending debian, into some place wer debian wont go. >>>You should know that i agree in getting all stuff back into debian, > > So do Ubuntu. And I don't say that as a way of cursing - but as a way > of describing: Ubuntu puts itself ahead of Debian with > regards to development, and wants to pass all of its findings back to > Debian at some point. But the business model is to duplicate Debian in > the process. One big difference is that we use stable Debian as our base. And very few packages are patched to fit our needs. > If Debian-edu sees itself as within Debian, rather than ahead of or > besides, then use Debian resources whenever possible. not ahead, not beside, but on top. > Debian has a website: http://www.debian.org/ . Not a CMS, but static > pages written in Web Meta Language and stored in CVS. This is not the > easiest way to post content, but remember that we are talking about the > _development_ here, *not* the school administrators. One reason to use > this relatively inconvenient system is that it has potential to get > translated into *lots* of different languages, and thus better reach > decision makers globally. hmm, who can contribute there - DD only ? > Debian has source maintainance tools: http://alioth.debian.org/ . > We use that already. Great! I just recommend that we avoid maintaining > ordinary packages like italc in that project and concentrate on stuff > directly related to the Debian-edu/Skolelinux infrastructure. Don't get > me wrong - italc shouldn't be dropped, just maintained in a separately > setup project[1], possibly with overlap in developers, but maybe now or > later handed over to others more interested in simple packaging > maintainance than in the larger perspectives of Debian-edu. Yes we use it. more and more. > Debian has a wiki: http://wiki.debian.org/ . Let's use that! Again, > don't confuse globally oriented development coordination and locally > oriented efforts. It makes good sense for Skolelinux in germany to > speak german and have an own wiki to strengthen their sense of > community. But it also makes good sense to move their internationally > oriented pages to somewhere shared among all Debian-edu developers, and > I believe that place is really the Debian wiki - to mingle more with > Debian instead of drifting off. Yes, some of us are using it. And we should probably use it even more. But I do like to have things in cvs/svn, and edit things in a normal editor. I dont think wiki.debian.org let me do that. > Debian has a planet: http://planet.debian.org/ . Let's use that. We are > Debian, right? Or what makes us so special that we (developers!) do not > want to hang out with our cousins in other parts of the mother project? Hmm, this is a place were I guess only DD's ha an account. > Debian has a bug tracker: http://bts.debian.org/ . Let's use that, and > request one or more pseudo-packages created for Skolelinux > instrastructural meta bugs. What we win is easier integration with > Debian - 'cause our end goal is complete absorbtion into Debian, right? OK, this is an interesting point. We have our own packages that we work on on a daily basis. And most, if not all of them are also uploaded into Debian. At some point I filed a bug on a package that we uses in debian-edu, but we used a newer than the one in debian-unstable. I dont remember if our maintainer called me, or if it was on irc (i could find out if you want to know), and was really angry, because I had filed a bug on a version that he not yet had uploaded into debian. He told me that I could get blacklisted from bts from that. Do we want that to happen with our users ? I dont. >>>but nevertheless we need space for our own stuff (maybe call it >>>debian-edu.org). We are at a point where we have special stuff for >>>our own. > > Our end goal is full and complete absorbtion into Debian, right? So any > and all "special stuff" is something we want to either get rid of or > have Debian adopt, right? So let's work on that rather than work on a > more solid foundation of those non-Debian paths. I dont think we will ever be there, mainly because we _have_to_ continue to use the stable debian as the base for our development. But we need to get our things mature so they can be adopted by Debian. >>>because now I see that your fear becomes true. We are still working >>>in local teams > Just to clarify: I find local teams very important. And those should > work however they see fit. But share whatever possible, and the > _development_ part of Debian-edu/Skolelinux in my opinion is best > shared in the context of Debian (when possible), rather on its own. Yes, when possible, but we need something between "every local team builds his own addon-cd", and "we only use debian sources/repositories/whatever" > [1] I currently maintain 40+ packages for Debian, but is (slooowly) > switching to have them all team-maintained. At first with myself as > sole team member but making it easier to let others in. But I do not > create a giant packages-formerly-maintained-by-Jonas project but > instead smaller ones for related packages (like icecast-related ones > or GD-related ones) or even single packages (like yaird that holds > both Debian packaging using SVN and upstream source using TLA and a > single mailinglist). The main consideration is to group things that > would be intering for same developers to mess directly with. Well good for you. I'm not sure if I ever will become a DD, not because I lack the skills, but more like "Sorry - I have other things to do than discuss things about the GFDL and why it cant be included into Debian" I mean, there are people in Debian that spend a lot of time making sure other people packages doesn't violate some rule. I'm glad they do, because then I can keep on hacking, to get Debian-edu in a state were we can release a stable version. It doesn't matter if it's 1 or 2 years after the last Stable Debian version was release. lets just hope we can deliver before we have to work on pld-stable. -- Finn-Arne Johansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bzz.no/ Debian-edu Developer and Solution provider -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
