On Sat, Oct 07, 2017 at 01:47:30PM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote: > On Sat, Oct 07, 2017 at 07:17:56AM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote: > > Obviously, this is an abuse, but that's the cost of being the default. If > > we had C.UTF-8 as a first-class locale, this wouldn't be that much an > > argument, but currently d-i falls back to en_US for English for most > > countries. > > > The decision belongs to the maintainer (I'm reassigning), but per the above > > reasoning, I expect wontfix. > > No, this is a nonsense argument. The en_US.UTF-8 locale must reflect the > actual usage in the US. "Well, systems use it as a default, so we're going > to overload it" would be idiotic.
This is what d-i does, thus such overloading is really widespread at present. I'm not claiming this is a good idea, merely describing status quo. A thoughtless change would risk breaking systems that rely on times being sortable, fitting within current field width, etc. > There's also no reason to believe that's actually what has happened here. > > C.UTF-8 *is* a first-class locale, and if any installers are using > en_US.UTF-8 when they should use C.UTF-8, those installers must be fixed. d-i allows selecting C as locale, but that's real 7-bit C rather than C.UTF-8. As such, it's not really usable in most contexts. Furthermore, if your location is not UK, Ireland or a few others, d-i will default to en_US.UTF-8. > Furthermore, the only bug I'm aware of in this area is the fact that, when > no locale is configured in the environment, glibc falls back to C instead of > to C.UTF-8, despite the fact that this is shipped prebuilt in the libc > package and is always available. I agree here, that would be the natural thing to do. I've even submitted a patch implementing this (#874160), however it hasn't been accepted as the maintainer doesn't want a divergence with upstream. Upstream glibc already has a proposal with this change -- I've tried contacting its proposer but did not receive an answer. I don't know glibc upstream's politics well enough to drive it forward. > As to the actual bug, I don't know if this represents a deliberate change or > if it's accidental. Speaking for myself as an American, I can confirm the > described behavior... and can say that it completely escaped my notice, > because I prefer 24h time whenever given the option. Nevertheless, if this > bug is to be deemed 'wontfix', it must be done solely with respect to what > is correct for the *US* locale. You should have considering this before invading! :p Meow. -- ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ We domesticated dogs 36000 years ago; together we chased ⣾⠁⢰⠒⠀⣿⡁ animals, hung out and licked or scratched our private parts. ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ Cats domesticated us 9500 years ago, and immediately we got ⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀⠀⠀ agriculture, towns then cities. -- whitroth on /.
