I agree completely -- I think in a few months I might be tempted to give the HURD a shot myself -- but to think it could supplant java? Of that I am not sure.
On Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 04:30:57PM -0700, Jim Franklin wrote: > Hi Seth, > I think HURD has potential from the fact that it is an operating > system rather than a language. Implementation of the java 2.0 specs may > not be constrained by sun's license, although I'm not sure. > > Jim > > Seth R Arnold wrote: > > > > John, there is one point you raised I am not sure I agree with: > > > > > 8. A HURD VM is possible due to the nature of its message passing system > > > and would be the most reasonable course to pursue for the development of > > > portable software. This course would basically make Java obsolete, and > > > would allow the use of many types of inexpensive hardware solutions to > > > replace Sun's expensive servers and workstations. This is what they are > > > concerned about. > > > > Java is being taught in many schools, mine included, as the default > > language. Our profs do not mind if we use other languages, but all example > > code, all example everything, the default IDE in the labs, EVERYTHING, is > > java. That makes for a few years of CS students that know nothing but Java. > > (Depressing..) > > > > Java has spread to Mac, to os/2 (I hope), win32, win3.1, free unix, > > commercial unix, practically every platform. > > > > I have a hard time believing that one GNU Hurd VM module will suddenly cause > > all that momentum to go away. (Especially, if Ean has it right -- building a > > VM for Hurd, if built from the java 2.0 specs, is going to fall under the > > Derivitive Works section of SCSL. And be not free.) > > > > Some very nice points, but I doubt the hurd will be able to serve as the > > magic bullet. > > > > comments? > > > > On Wed, Sep 15, 1999 at 05:44:56PM -0500, John Foster wrote: > > > I have been watching this thread for some time and feel that some > > > reality is in order for anyone interested in this subject. > > > > > > My 2 cents worth: > > > > > > 1. Sun and all other commercial ventures exist solely for the purpose of > > > making money. They will sometimes do some things that seem to be for the > > > "good of mankind", but those things generally have some "lucrative" > > > aspect to them (read SCSL). > > > > > > 2. The aspect of making money is not "a bad thing" in itself. The > > > acquisition of profit by using deceptive tactics is "a bad thing". > > > 3. The owner of any original patent/copyright license has the right to > > > alter that patent at will. For instance if Sun decides to not make > > > StarOffice available under the SCSL they do have the right, because they > > > bought it, to make StarOffice a commercial package. They can do so at > > > will. > > > > > > 4. Technically/legally Sun or Microsoft, or AOL and many others, could > > > alter the terms of the current license structures so that "open source" > > > "free" software ceases to exist. If Linas Torvalds decided that the next > > > kernel version of Linux was not to be GPL software, he has the right to > > > do it. Does that shock you? If it does then you need to read up on the > > > U.S. patent and trademark guidelines as they apply to intellectual > > > property, especially software. > > > > > > 5. There is a huge movement in Europe to keep software patents out of > > > the legal system. I do not think they will be successful. However, > > > "THE ACTIONS TAKEN BY ALL INTERESTED PEOPLE WITH REGARD TO SUN'S SCSL > > > AND THE APPLICATION OF IT'S GUIDELINES WILL SET A PRECEDENT FOR YEARS TO > > > COME" > > > > > > 6. In my opinion "the best interests of free open source software will > > > be served by pushing forward with development of the GNU HURD system and > > > the implementation of a HURD Virtual Machine language that has all the > > > capabilities of Java as it is now, but is more likely to remain free. > > > > > > 7. If Debian and all the other Linux communities continue to put forth > > > free software that is portable to all hardware systems they represent a > > > serious threat to all commercial software. > > > > > > 8. A HURD VM is possible due to the nature of its message passing system > > > and would be the most reasonable course to pursue for the development of > > > portable software. This course would basically make Java obsolete, and > > > would allow the use of many types of inexpensive hardware solutions to > > > replace Sun's expensive servers and workstations. This is what they are > > > concerned about. > > > > > > All my best wishes to the people who assist in the "Free Software" > > > movement, and especially to those of you that do the actual development > > > of applications. > > > -- > > > John Foster > > > AdVance-Computing Systems > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > ICQ# 19460173 > > > > > > > > > -- > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > -- > > Seth Arnold | http://www.willamette.edu/~sarnold/ > > Hate spam? See http://maps.vix.com/rbl/ for help > > Hi! I'm a .signature virus! Copy me into > > your ~/.signature to help me spread! > > > > -- > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Seth Arnold | http://www.willamette.edu/~sarnold/ Hate spam? See http://maps.vix.com/rbl/ for help Hi! I'm a .signature virus! Copy me into your ~/.signature to help me spread!
