On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 21:05:26 +0300 Micha Feigin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 19:22:40 +0200 > Benedek Frank <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 09:54:12 -0600 > > Javier-Elias Vasquez-Vivas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Just keep in mind also fluxbox for your wm trials, its light and > > > still have lots of nice features, its pretty configurable, and > > > there are several styles available, someones havier than others. > > > For remote connections I just use "Clean" style, and I don't > > > attach aditional wallpaper and it's pretty light, actually lighter > > > than fvwm in my experience... > > > > > It probably depends on the setup, but could be. I tried it for a while > but got caught with fvwm due to flexability, although it does take > some time to set up to your taste as the configuration is in a text > file and there are a LOT of options. Note that the default setup is > VERY ugly and not representative. Look at the homepage for some > screenshots that show what it can really do. > > I run a very minimalistic fvwm session (no background image, no panel, > only menus simple title which I remove on maximization, which is > applied to most windows to maximize desktop real estate. It take about > 2.5 MB. > > > > Have fun, > > > > > > Javier. > > Hi > > > > Okay, I will give it a shot. Can I ask a dumb question? What is the > > difference between like KDE and Gnome and XFCE, which are Desktops, > > and like fluxbox, blackbox etc that are Window Managers? I am sure > > this is very basic, but I dont know it. When I launch Enlightenment > > for example which is a Window Manager, I get pretty much the same > > experience when I launch XFce, which is a desktop. Can somebody > > enlighten me? > > Desktops are supposed to handle the whole desktop experience. That > mainly involves having a folder manager integrated with the desktop. > The will mean folders on the desktop (such as my documents in windows) > and usually it allows to handle all the interface settings such as > keyboard switching, so system settings etc. > > A window manager in theory only handles the windows, providing borders > for dragging and resizing, titles and by definition thats it. Most > allow for some sort of pannel, either built in or external and a > pager. > > BTW you can add integrated folder manager on the desktop using > rox-desktop (I am not sure if there is much more the rox-filer) > > personally I use X to handle keyboard switching and everything else I > usually do directly, if its X startup related, through .xsession. > > To handle keyboard switching with X you need to set a line for you > keyboard section in the x configuration file > Option "XkbLayout" "us,il" > and the to switch use something like > Option "XkbOptions" "grp:shift_toggle,grp_led:scroll" > which switches keymap by pressing both shift keys and lights the > scroll lock light to indicate the second keymap. I think its also > possible to use a third keymap this way, but not sure, and its always > possible to switch from the command line using xmodmap (which you can > always attach in your setup files to some keys) Hi I tried what you wrote, and it works like a charm, like you said, except I cannot use it for my tasts for some reason. As you may know, Japanese has weird characters, and when I put ja,hu in my keymap like you did with (us,il), and I boot up, my Japanese one writes characters that arent roman letters, but Japanese Katakana letters . WHen I change to the other one, Hungarian, it works great. I press the two shift keys, and the light comes up and all. Just the default Japanese is messed up. When I have only the "ja" in my keymap, then it comes up with Roman alphabet, just the layout is Japanese, and I need that because my laptop has the Japanese keyboard, with roman letters, but things like @ sign are in a different place compare to US keymap, so I use the Japanese. So my question is, would you happen to know, that when I have only "ja" defined, why it works, and when I have "ja,hu" defined, why the Japanese starts to show Japanese characters instead of roman characters? Thanks Ben > > > > > Thanks, and yes, I will give fluxbox a try. > > > > Ben > > > > > > On 6/23/05, Benedek Frank <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 14:57:01 +0300 > > > > Micha Feigin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 13:01:31 +0200 > > > > > Benedek Frank <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On Wednesday 22 June 2005 11:36, you wrote: > > > > > > > On Wed, 22 Jun 2005, Benedek Frank wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi. Can you check to see if I use something really that > > > > > > > > I shouldnt use at all? > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > > > > > > I have realized that. I blew it away already. I will set up > > > > > > Sonypid which can enable Volume controlls to speial keys, so > > > > > > I dont need kmix anymore. (I guess this is how a newbie > > > > > > learns). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The volume keys on my laptop just produce regular key presses > > > > > (depends on whether they are acpi buttons or not), sonypi > > > > > doesn't find anything on this machine. What I did was to find > > > > > the key-press symcodes using xev and then I setup Xmodmap to > > > > > map them to keysyms which I later map in the fvwm setup file > > > > > to use amixer and xosd to show the output > > > > > > > > There is a software called sonypid, and that is run as a daemon, > > > > and can listen to all special keys, that otherwise will not be > > > > listened to, unless using sonypid, at least with my PCG-C1VRX/K. > > > > FOr me, also I need the sonypid, so that I can use the "capture" > > > > button, to start camera, or to start whatever I set it to start. > > > > Camera is pretty cool and useless. (lol). I use it btw to start > > > > bluetooth, and so it wont have to run all the time, just when I > > > > need it, so it wont use memory. Very handy, specially I play > > > > with Nokia Series 60 phones all the time, they have bluetooth > > > > support. > > I know about it, it just seem that my laptop lacks the sonypi > extension. At least the kernel driver doesn't recognize anything. > > > > > > > > > > > I have in ~/.Xmodmap: > > > > > keycode 223 = XF86Standby > > > > > keycode 160 = XF86AudioMute > > > > > keycode 176 = XF86AudioRaiseVolume > > > > > keycode 174 = XF86AudioLowerVolume > > > > > > > > > > And in my fvwm file (a bit complicated but not that much) > > > > > > > > > > Key XF86AudioRaiseVolume A A Exec killall -9 osd_cat; amixer > > > > > set PCM 100 unmute ; /usr/bin/amixer set Master 5%+ unmute | > > > > > sed -n "s/Front \(Left\|Right\): Playback .* \[\(.*\)\] > > > > > \[.*\]/\1 \2/p" | osd_cat -d 2 -p middle -A center -l2 -i -30 > > > > > -s 2 -S darkgreen -f "-*-arial-bold-r-*-*-80-*-*-*- *-*-*-*" > > > > > -c lightgreen > > > > > > > > > > Key XF86AudioLowerVolume A A Exec killall -9 osd_cat; amixer > > > > > set PCM 100 unmute ; /usr/bin/amixer set Master 5%- unmute | > > > > > sed -n "s/Front \(Left\|Right \): Playback .* \[\(.*\)\] > > > > > \[.*\]/\1 \2/ p" | osd_cat -d 2 -p middle -A center - l2 -i > > > > > -30 -s 2 -S darkgreen -f "-*- arial- > > > > > bold-r-*-*-80-*-*-*-*-*-*-*" -c lightgreen > > > > > > > > > > Key XF86AudioMute A A Exec killall -9 osd_cat; amixer set PCM > > > > > 100 unmute ; if (amixer set Master toggle | grep -q '\[on\]'); > > > > > then echo Un- Mute; else echo Mute; fi | osd_cat -d 2 -p > > > > > middle -A center -l1 -s 2 -S gray10 - f "-*-arial- bold-r-*- > > > > > *-100- *-*-*-*-*-*-*" -c lightgreen > > > > > > > > > > Key XF86Standby A A Exec /usr/bin/eject > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for describing, I may use it. At least I can use the > > > > commnads to increase or decrease volume, and plug them into my > > > > script I have sonypid run when a button is presses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Use xterm instead of gnome-terminal: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1410 tconnors 15 0 4060 4060 2192 S 0.0 0.4 0:44 > > > > > > > xterm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, a terminal emulator doesn't *need* 30m just to > > > > > > > freaking run. Yikes! > > > > > > Good call, I will look into getting a smaller terminal. > > > > > > > > > > I use rxvt-unicode-lite since I want unicode but without the > > > > > bells and wisles of the full compile. In my case I just use > > > > > screen embeded in the terminal for multiple instances since > > > > > the fvwm tabs extention was too heavy for me (it uses perl) > > > > > and I didn't want to use kterm or gnome-whatever. Another > > > > > option if you want several terminal windows and not just > > > > > instances is to run the rxvt server on startup and then just > > > > > startup clients, reduces the memory considerably for multiple > > > > > terminals. > > > > > > > > I use usually one, or maximum 2, rarely 3, for chekking real > > > > time logs. One problem with xterm I realized, that I cannot copy > > > > and past from it to the email. It is hard to troubleshoot like > > > > that. Konsole and gnome-terminal allowed me to do so. But the > > > > memory is a bigger problem, so I am very happy after all. > > Its program dependent, but yes, sylpheed and emacs seem to have some > problems with pasting from X for some reason. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As much as I hate pine (I'd hate kmail worse), it only > > > > > > > needs: > > > > > > > 5065 tconnors 15 0 3736 3736 2272 S 0.2 0.4 0:00 > > > > > > > pine > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All those other k* programs are just useless helper apps > > > > > > > to kde. Blow kde away, and that'll free up a bit. > > > > > > > > > > > > I have realized that. Actually, having the machine rebootet, > > > > > > with KDM and KDE taken out of auto-start, I got a much > > > > > > prettier picture, and a responsive system. ALready > > > > > > half-success. When I dont start this kmail prog, I have > > > > > > 140MB free mem. Yes, more than half of what I have. Firefox > > > > > > eats up 20 or so. I still have 120 left. At that point, I > > > > > > start Kmail, and slowly, about one minute it starts, and I > > > > > > will have 20 MB left. So it eats 100MB or RAM. That is > > > > > > weird. One weird program. It starts all these programs with > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > kmail 30MB > > > > > > knotify 14MB > > > > > > kded 11MB > > > > > > kio_pop3 (as many times as many POP3 accounts I have-each > > > > > > uses 10MB) klauncher 10MB > > > > > > kdeinit 9.5MB > > > > > > > > > > > > This is unacceptable. I am looking for a NEW email client. I > > > > > > like a GUI email client, that has features such as putting > > > > > > emails to the folders I want them to go (filtering) and has > > > > > > support for more than one POP account. Any takers on this? > > > > > > Will pine do this for me? Can it use the maildir format? > > > > > > > > > > I am using sylpheed-claws-gtk2 since I want the RTL support > > > > > for hebrew (gtk has unicode support properly built in). It has > > > > > a few quirks but was the best I found for my tastes. If you > > > > > don't need RTL sylpheed-claws seems more stable and faster and > > > > > has better support for maildir (actually sylpheed-claws-gtk2 > > > > > doesn't have any support for maildir but depending on version > > > > > mismatches it sometimes works with the sylpheed-claws maildir > > > > > pluging). > > > > > > > > Yes, I have slypheed now myself too, but I didnt go for the > > > > -claws version, as "apt-cache search sylpheed" showed the -clwas > > > > version as the "bleeding edge email client", so I went for the > > > > regular "sylpheed". It seems a bit old school, but I like it > > > > already more than kmail, first it starts fast, second VERY > > > > IMPORTANT for me, it allows me to set the amount of days it will > > > > delete the messages from the server after it was received. So I > > > > am inlove with sylpheed, and I finished looking for email > > > > clients. Of course I had a rough half-day of converting maildir > > > > to mbox, but I am done with it now, and I imported it > > > > successfuly. It is quite good now. > > Its marked as bleeding edge but its should be rather stable and its > got quite a few more features. The gtk2 version is a bit buggy (it > will crash on rare occasions, but I just start it back up) but I need > the right to left support and very few email programs do that > properly. > > > > > > > > > > > If you are happy with the console mutt is great (the only two > > > > > reasons I left it is that it didn't have a folder view to see > > > > > how many emails are in each folder and switching to a specific > > > > > folder can be a bit cumbersome, on the other hand it is very > > > > > good at switching to the next folder with unread mail. The > > > > > other reason is hebrew support, but that depends on the > > > > > terminal or reader) > > > > > > > > > I only need japanese and hungarian support, and sylpheed does a > > > > fairly good job in that case also, so I am happy again. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Seriously, get rid of the kde and gnome crap. You don't > > > > > > > need it. It won't make your life any happier. And then > > > > > > > you will look at the dribbling fools who keep on drooling > > > > > > > over the eye-candy, and laugh at their constant need to > > > > > > > upgrade to the latest hardware that only makes their room > > > > > > > hotter (and fucks up the environment for the rest of us). > > > > > > > And you won't need to upgrade your computer, because when > > > > > > > it is not running crufty bloated crapware, it's plenty > > > > > > > fast enough. > > > > > > > > > > > > > How can I get rid of KDE and Gnome? apt-get uninstall kde > > > > > > gnome ?? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't run KDE and GNOME programs. Note the clean gtk2 programs > > > > > are ok, they don't bring in all the crap only gnome programs > > > > > that depend on the gnome libraries (you can see from the > > > > > dependencies). > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh, and encourage your favourite hacker to emphasise code > > > > > > > quality and optimisation before useless feaping > > > > > > > creaturism. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Other points that the OP mensioned: > > > > > > > > > > Its a bit tricky to setup, but if you like nice gui login but > > > > > want something lighter then kdm you can use qingy > > > > > (qingy.sf.net) which uses the frame buffer. I'm afraid that > > > > > there is no debian package though. Personally I use wdm at the > > > > > moment, when I have some time I am planning to setup qingy. > > > > > > > > > > As a window manager I use fvwm, but its a taste issue. Its a > > > > > bit harder to setup but is very flexible. > > > > I am happy now with xfce, but I want to try even smaller ones, > > > > so I will give it a shot. > > > > > > > > > > For text I use lyx to produce latex documents, but I write > > > > > math so office suits are mostly irrelevant anyway (and tex is > > > > > what all journals in my field take anyway, some will also > > > > > accept word, but they are a few a far between (thank god ;-) > > > > > ). > > > > > > > > > > For a browser I settled on opera which is fast, light and a > > > > > but more complient with IE only sites then mozilla. The three > > > > > main downsides with it are that it not free (you either accept > > > > > an advertisement bar or you pay to get a serial), it doesn't > > > > > change proxy server setups on the fly for some reason, and it > > > > > uses the mozilla plugin for loading pdf files which has a > > > > > memory leak, reaches over a Gig on occasion, on the other hand > > > > > it has an options to load previous session on startup so you > > > > > can just close/kill it and reopen to solve the problem. It > > > > > also has a debian package (on their site, not the repository) > > > > > so its easy to install. > > > > > > > > I will try opera. Until this point I still used Firefox. Opera > > > > can display java and flash, macromedia, other stuff like that.? > > > > I ocassionally need them. Or I can just keep firefox for those > > > > times,,....> > > It recognized and loads all the mozilla plugins so there is no problem > with java/flash etc. It even runs mplayer through the mozilla-mplayer > plugin. > > > > > > > > > > For the record, my machine comes up with a bit > > > > > under 30M ram usage running wdm, X, rxvt terminal with a > > > > > screen session running in it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow, that is outstanding. I am using 70MB after boot, with all > > > > what I have, one xterm session, and the sylpheed open, with X > > > > and XFce. That is way better than about 10MB free (now 190MB > > > > free) when I used KDE and KDM and all the K***crap. I am happy I > > > > started this thread, and I want to thank you all for helping. Of > > > > course I still keep looking for good ideas. At the end, I will > > > > make a website from what I learnd. > > I didn't try with sylpheed but ps shows about 20MB usage (which is > more then I like but better then others) so it my machine should tip > the scales at around 50MB for a similar startup setup. > > I do use suspend almost always (software-suspend-2) so I very rarely > cold boot (maybe twice a month) but I think startup time is around a > minute. > > > > > > > > > Bence > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > This Mail Was Scanned By Mail-seCure System > > at the Tel-Aviv University CC. > > > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > This Mail Was Scanned By Mail-seCure System > at the Tel-Aviv University CC. > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
