***** MS => Manoj Srivastava MS> You would be better served in the -devel list.
I think -devel is completely useless, and unsuitable to have anything decided. YMMV. DGMS> I think we should focus on building a free OS. MS> That we do. Mentioning software does not take much focus, Having our OS incomplete without non-free software does it. MS> No dependencies, yes. No refences, no. I just think allowing `suggests' from main to (non-free|contrib) is an unneeded dependence on non-free software. MS> And, as I said, anything this controversial can't be decided here MS> anyway -- this is not a forum where people can do end runs around MS> -devel. Maybe this could have been a good forum to have some feedback before writing a general resolution. MS> I am afraid this is indeed part of the main Debian goal. We disagree. Read further, please. MS> Because that is _our_ goal too. (Have you actually read the social MS> contract? ) <sarcasm> Social Contract? What is it? Nah, I just woke up that morning thinking a @debian.org address would be cool, applied and became a maintainer... what's all this stuff you're referring to? </sarcasm> Getting serious, we apparently read the same words in a different way, which is really no surprise. Let me quote some part of it: >--------------------------------------------------------------------< Debian GNU/Linux Social Contract The Debian Project is an association of individuals who have made common cause to create a free operating system. This is the "social contract" we offer to the free software community. >--------------------------------------------------------------------< Our goal is stated here above: we have made common cause to create a free operating system. This is what we stand for. >--------------------------------------------------------------------< We will support our users who develop and run non-free software on Debian, but we will never make the system depend on an item of non-free software. >--------------------------------------------------------------------< I read this the way I think it has been written for: Debian will be able to stand by itself, without any need of other non-free software to be complete. I feel this is not the current situation --- YMMV --- and that's all. >--------------------------------------------------------------------< We acknowledge that some of our users require the use of programs that don't conform to the Debian Free Software Guidelines. We have created "contrib" and "non-free" areas in our FTP archive for this software. The software in these directories is not part of the Debian system, although it has been configured for use with Debian. >--------------------------------------------------------------------< I really can't understand how come Debian links to something which is not Debian; to me this means Debian isn't complete without that something, which is something which does not really make much sense, IMHO. MS> I think it is more important telling our users that there is MS> functionality they can gain even though the software providing it MS> does not meet our guidelines. I still recommend Photoshop and Word MS> to people for whom I think it is a better solution. Nobody says you shouldn't do this: just do it outside of Debian is my suggestion, and absolutely don't do it with Debian links like `suggests' is my call. MS> I prefer free software. I think well enough about it not to think MS> that censorship is the only way to make our point. And, pardon me, MS> your approach does smack of censorship. Maybe, but I'm not really interested in this sort of conclusion: I know it's not what I mean, so you are free to think of it any way you like, I'll be happy nevertheless. My concern, as a developer, is that Debian commits to non-free software beyond what is acceptable, by me, and by other people who'd rather be as free as possible from any non-free software association. So I'd like to know how big this commitment really is, and I'd like every developer could know it, because I feel it is a very important topic. That's all I'm trying to do, please excuse me if this is of any inconvenience to you. Regards, -- Davide G. M. Salvetti - IW5DZC [JN53fr] - <http://www.linux.it/%7Esalve/> <http://www.gnu.org/> * <http://www.debian.org/> * <http://www.linux.org>
