tl;dr: pls can we create [email protected] with posting acceptance rules copied from debian-devel-announce[1] and subscriber list maintained in sync with debian-private.
(Reply-to set to -project.) We've been having a good conversation on -vote about the declassification of -private. We have restated our good intentions to try to reduce the abuse of -private for messages which do not need confidentiality. (Such abuse is contrary to our principle of transparency.) That is good but it is not enough. Restating, once again, our good intentions, will not significantly reduce the amount by which matters are discussed on -private which could perhaps be discussed elsewhere. We also need to understand why people use -private when perhaps they ought not. One reason is that -private has a better signal to noise ratio than -devel or -project, and therefore people pay more attention to it. I've several times had conversations with other DDs who read -private (and announce lists) but no public discussion lists. (Or who read -private more than they do other lists.) Another reason is that if a conversation on -private has moved on and no longer needs confidentiality, there is nowhere where the same people can carry on the conversation, with the same primary audience and the same potential participants, but in public. This is one reason why trying to shift things off -private to (say) -project is awkward. IMO we should create a list which is very like -private (in practice, only DDs and DMs post to it; and it has a similar or identical recipient list) but which does not have -private's lack of transparency. So I would like to suggest, at least as an experiment, creating a list which DDs and DMs can post, to but which is publicly distributed and and archived and to which anyone can subscribe. (I have proposed this before, but a long time ago. I think it is time for me to suggest it again.) We should at the very least populate the initial subscriber list with that of -private. We can then encourage people who want to reach the audience of -private to use the new list instead, when they don't need privacy. I think we should link the subscriber list to that of -private, so that it is not possible to subscribe only to confidential emails. Rather it becomes possible to subscribe only to emails from DDs and DMs. That way someone who wants to continue a conversation from -private, but with transparency, knows that they will definitely be able to continue the conversation with the same people. It is important that the social pressure to use a fully open list does not exceed the social pressure to avoid needless use of -private, so I would suggest that, initially, the new list's topics would be "anything Debian-related, even if another more specific list exists, when the poster wishes to have a conversation with other DDs and DMs". I'm not sure what the right name would be for the new list. Partly this is because we don't have a word for the set DDs+DMs. Sometimes people use "members" to include only DDs and not DMs. "Contributors" means (and ought to mean) lots of random people. But I think overall we probably ought to consider DMs "members" too, even though DM is not the most senior tier of membership (they are not the _governing_ members). So I would suggest [email protected] [1] In my tl;dr I said that the posting rules for -members should be copied from d-d-a. I think d-d-a should accept signed messages from DMs; I doubt we will face abuse of d-d-a by DMs. If we don't want to make that change to d-d-a, then -members ought to have a slightly modified version of d-d-a's rules, which looks for DM keys too. Thanks for your attention. Ian. -- Ian Jackson <[email protected]> These opinions are my own. If I emailed you from an address @fyvzl.net or @evade.org.uk, that is a private address which bypasses my fierce spamfilter.
