On Thu, Jul 04, 2019 at 10:18:18AM +0200, Raphael Hertzog wrote: > On Wed, 03 Jul 2019, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: > > On Wed, Jul 03, 2019 at 05:33:25PM +0200, Ole Streicher wrote: > > > Being german, I think that Debian should honor discriminated minorities, > > > > Being a discriminated against minority, I think Debian should *not*. > > And since Debian is do-ocracy, it's not your call. You can disagree with > the publicity team, but it's their call and a call they made while trying > to put our diversity statement into application. > My position is not one of disagreement without basis. I have found, through my own experience, that diversity efforts (including those like the pride month logo Debian logo change) end up doing more harm than good. By that I do not mean that they hurt the feelings of majority groups (though that may be an associated affect), but rather that in the end such efforts often further marginalize those for whom the "help" is meant.
The point of Debian being a do-ocracy is not lost on me. In fact, when it comes to technical matters, it is the superior approach. Even in difficult technical matters (like the init system debate) where the choices amount to "do this" and "do nothing" there is a technical committee which can act as arbiter. However, when it comes to non-technical matters, esepcially when one potential course of action is "do nothing," there is no such possibility. Those who wish to "help" marginalized groups by displays such as the pride month support have an avenue to "do" what they believe is best in this do-ocracy of ours. What course is available to me and those like me who believe we should "do nothing"? It would seem that public discussions that attempt to address that are met with great resistance and with many attacks against the character, motivations, and demographics of those who hold that position. > Can we stop this discussion now, please? > Since it seems like on this occassion and at least one prior occassion my expression of my position/opinion on what Debian as a project should or should not do based on my own experience with discrimination and supposed diversity efforts has been met with multiple responses of the general sentiment "be quiet, your opinion is not wanted here, let the others speak," I can only conclude that I have not been sufficiently oppressed to have my opinions count. > Unless you really want to revert their decision via a general > resolution... but even in that case, the discussion here doesn't help to > go forward with this. > Perhaps you feel like this discussion doesn't help because nobody has ever tried to "help" you by targeting a diversity effort at you. -- Roberto C. Sánchez