I concur with Scott, personally, I find content of Geraldo’s email(s) totally unacceptable at the same time as I find the language of Tina’s email inappropriate.
Ondřej -- Ondřej Surý <[email protected]> > On 13 Dec 2019, at 15:21, Scott Kitterman <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> On December 13, 2019 11:53:21 AM UTC, Enrico Zini <[email protected]> >> wrote: >>> On Fri, Dec 13, 2019 at 10:49:12AM +0100, Bernd Zeimetz wrote: >>> >>> No, either we have a CoC or not. >>> If it goes so much against your believes, humanity or whatever else, >>> that you can't answer in a sane language, ask somebody else to answer >>> in your name. Especially when you are in a team that wants to keep >>> the CoC upright. >> >> If one focuses on Tina instead of looking at Gerardo's history of >> behaviour on Debian list, and is actually in common faith trying to >> make >> sense of an extreme reaction, I suggest these links for a bit of >> context: >> >> * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning >> * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tone_policing >> * >> https://blog.valerieaurora.org/2019/01/09/repost-how-calls-for-civility-are-harming-tech-companies/ >> >> TL;DR: there is a widespread form of oppression which consists in >> politely but relentlessly asking minorities to justify themselves. >> >> As long as we allow it to happen in Debian list, as I observe that we >> do, I do expect that somebody loses it at some point. I believe that >> the >> person who engages in sealioning, and those who enable them to continue >> doing so, should at least get to share in the blame. > > I disagree that's what's happening here. > > I expect that virtually no one in Debian finds Gerardo's message acceptable > (speaking for myself, I don't). I think Joerg's reply to it addressed it > directly and completely. I don't think his (Joerg's) point of view is at all > controversial in Debian. No one (except Gerardo) is asking anyone to justify > their existence. > > I even understand getting very upset about a message like that and using > intemperate language. It's not like I haven't done it myself for other > reasons. > > For me, if Martina had expressed some recognition that the choice of language > was not appropriate for a Debian list (remember, I'm specifically not talking > about the content, I've no significant issue with that), then that would have > been the end of it for me. We all make mistakes. > > That's not what happened though. They claimed a special privilege to use > language that would not be acceptable for others to use on Debian lists. I > find that generally troubling, particularly so for someone who has claimed > the role of an interpreter of the CoC. > > Scott K > > P.S. FOAD, when I kvetched about use of language on -vote and inadvertently > set off this thread, things like Gerardo's views on gender were absolutely > not what I was talking about. >
