On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 11:07:09PM -0800, Jimmy Johnson wrote: > > First off you're quoting something you have read and not from any real > experience.
You have aboslutely no evidence to support your statement. I don't think rhkramer has specifically stated whether he is basing his statements on his own experience or what he read. However, others have spoken up in this thread regarding your suggestion and the results are mixed: some have tried and succeeded, while others have tried it and failed. > I can say this, I run 5 laptops and two desktops, one laptop is > reaching it's end of life for kde plasma upstream, it's an older real IBM > Thinkpad, while all the others are different makes and models, AMD and > Intel, none are the same but they are running Wheezy, Jessie, Stretch, > Buster, Sid, 14.04 lts, 16.04 lts, 18.04 lts and I test other systems of > interest too and it keeps me busy, these are not virtual installs, they are > real hardware installs and I fix my problems, that's how I learn, I've been > doing this for more than 20 years, it's called experience, real experience. I am not trying to minimize your experience, but by my count it is likely that at most one or two of the systems you list might have been subjected to a wheezy -> stretch upgrade. Now, you may have actually tried it on all of them and then gone on to install different versions or distros on them, but that is not really the point. Your experience, though lengthy in terms of number of years, is essentially anecdotal. If you approached this discussion saying that you recommend the procedure after having attempted it on 10 server clusters of 100 servers each in varying configurations, then that would be different. Put differently, I have done a fair amount of electrical work on my home over the years. That, however, does not qualify me to read the national eletrical code and respond with "those idiots have no idea what they are saying." Many people, including Debian Developers, other Debian contributors, and regular users have contributed to getting Debian to where it is after more than 25 years. If you have a better approach, please document it, publish it, post it to the appropriate mailing lists, file wishlist bugs against the right packages, get others to test it and reproduce your results, and then get it adopted by the project. That is how consensus is built in a Free Software community. Otherwise, please do others courtesy of being forthright by adding a simple "I've done this one (or twice, or however many times) and it worked for me and my configuration, but YMMV." > No more or less than anybody else here, I don't know the OP or what his > capabilities are and my time is limited, but when I see a post where I can > help I will, what else can you ask from a fellow Linux User. It is definitely a good thing to want to help fellow users. However, please keep in mind that, as several others have pointed out, your recommended course of action has some potential pitfalls. Beyond that, it is even specifically discouraged in the official release notes. That is not because some group of people sat around trying to think how they could waste users' time and ruin their experience with Debian. Rather, it was a concensus reached based on their collective knowledge and experience. If you feel like that should be challenged, I have already outlined the steps. > Just one other > thing, I'm not a joiner and I won't get held back. I'm done discussing this > tread, unless the OP has a question for me. Your like a pack of wolf's ready > to pounce on anything different than what you have read and some of you have > not changed in the 20+ years I've been using Linux, you are bullies and mean > to anyone different than you, > I think you are perceiving personal attacks where none are being made. It is common and natural to want to speak up when one hears bad advice or advice without appropriate warnings being given. For example, if I am talking with someone about how to reach some destination on foot and say something like "and when you come to this busy intersection, just close your eyes and start crossing the street and the cars will stop and let you pass," it would not be at all surprising to hear that challenged. We are taught from a young age that crossing the street is dangerous and that there is a right way to do it. Now, upgrading Debian is not dangerous like crossing the street (unlike upgrading Windows or RedHat). However, for many users, a catastrophic mishap during an upgrade would be very inconvenient. It might prevent them from doing work, school, or some other important task. The other participants in this thread are simply trying to be good netizens and help their fellow user, same as you. Please, continue lending assistance to your fellow users. As far as places to find help, debian-user has always been one of the best places for users of Debian (and even related distros) and has been around longer than most other places to get help. We can always use more people who know what they are doing to help those who encounter difficulty. Just keep in mind that we all have different experiences and different reasons for thinking and believing the things that we think and believe. > and I am different than you period. We are all different from each other. That is what makes all of this so much fun. :-) Regards, -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sánchez