On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 11:07:09PM -0800, Jimmy Johnson wrote:
> First off you're quoting something you have read and not from any real
> experience.  

You have aboslutely no evidence to support your statement. I don't
think rhkramer has specifically stated whether he is basing his
statements on his own experience or what he read. However, others have
spoken up in this thread regarding your suggestion and the results are
mixed: some have tried and succeeded, while others have tried it and

> I can say this, I run 5 laptops and two desktops, one laptop is
> reaching it's end of life for kde plasma upstream, it's an older real IBM
> Thinkpad, while all the others are different makes and models, AMD and
> Intel, none are the same but they are running Wheezy, Jessie, Stretch,
> Buster, Sid, 14.04 lts, 16.04 lts, 18.04 lts and I test other systems of
> interest too and it keeps me busy, these are not virtual installs, they are
> real hardware installs and I fix my problems, that's how I learn, I've been
> doing this for more than 20 years, it's called experience, real experience.

I am not trying to minimize your experience, but by my count it is
likely that at most one or two of the systems you list might have been
subjected to a wheezy -> stretch upgrade. Now, you may have actually
tried it on all of them and then gone on to install different versions
or distros on them, but that is not really the point.

Your experience, though lengthy in terms of number of years, is
essentially anecdotal. If you approached this discussion saying that you
recommend the procedure after having attempted it on 10 server clusters
of 100 servers each in varying configurations, then that would be

Put differently, I have done a fair amount of electrical work on my home
over the years. That, however, does not qualify me to read the national
eletrical code and respond with "those idiots have no idea what they are
saying." Many people, including Debian Developers, other Debian
contributors, and regular users have contributed to getting Debian to
where it is after more than 25 years. If you have a better approach,
please document it, publish it, post it to the appropriate mailing
lists, file wishlist bugs against the right packages, get others to test
it and reproduce your results, and then get it adopted by the project.
That is how consensus is built in a Free Software community.

Otherwise, please do others courtesy of being forthright by adding a
simple "I've done this one (or twice, or however many times) and it
worked for me and my configuration, but YMMV."

> No more or less than anybody else here, I don't know the OP or what his
> capabilities are and my time is limited, but when I see a post where I can
> help I will, what else can you ask from a fellow Linux User.

It is definitely a good thing to want to help fellow users. However,
please keep in mind that, as several others have pointed out, your
recommended course of action has some potential pitfalls. Beyond that,
it is even specifically discouraged in the official release notes. That
is not because some group of people sat around trying to think how they
could waste users' time and ruin their experience with Debian. Rather,
it was a concensus reached based on their collective knowledge and
experience. If you feel like that should be challenged, I have already
outlined the steps.

> Just one other
> thing, I'm not a joiner and I won't get held back. I'm done discussing this
> tread, unless the OP has a question for me. Your like a pack of wolf's ready
> to pounce on anything different than what you have read and some of you have
> not changed in the 20+ years I've been using Linux, you are bullies and mean
> to anyone different than you,
I think you are perceiving personal attacks where none are being made.
It is common and natural to want to speak up when one hears bad advice
or advice without appropriate warnings being given. For example, if I
am talking with someone about how to reach some destination on foot and
say something like "and when you come to this busy intersection, just
close your eyes and start crossing the street and the cars will stop and
let you pass," it would not be at all surprising to hear that
challenged. We are taught from a young age that crossing the street is
dangerous and that there is a right way to do it.

Now, upgrading Debian is not dangerous like crossing the street (unlike
upgrading Windows or RedHat). However, for many users, a catastrophic
mishap during an upgrade would be very inconvenient. It might prevent
them from doing work, school, or some other important task. The other
participants in this thread are simply trying to be good netizens and
help their fellow user, same as you.

Please, continue lending assistance to your fellow users. As far as
places to find help, debian-user has always been one of the best places
for users of Debian (and even related distros) and has been around
longer than most other places to get help. We can always use more people
who know what they are doing to help those who encounter difficulty.
Just keep in mind that we all have different experiences and different
reasons for thinking and believing the things that we think and believe.

>  and I am different than you period.

We are all different from each other. That is what makes all of this so
much fun. :-)



Roberto C. Sánchez

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