On Wed, 11 Jun 2003 22:42:37 +1000, Hamish Moffatt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> On Tue, Jun 10, 2003 at 11:53:48AM -0400, Raul Miller wrote: >> > > This fails the Monotonicity Criterion (MC) >> >> On Wed, Jun 11, 2003 at 01:10:05AM +1000, Hamish Moffatt wrote: >> > Doesn't this depend on (a) the order in which the votes are >> > received, >> >> No. >> >> [I'm busy at the moment, but I'll try to answer your other >> questions later, if no one else has by then.] > Well, I'm still confused. > Here is Manoj's example: >> Consider the case where the quorum is 45, and there have been 44 >> votes -- 23 for, 21 against. (Only one option on the ballot). I am >> opposed to the option. >> >> At this point; under my version; I can express my opinions with no >> fear of harming my candidate. Under your amendment; if I do not >> vote; the vote is nullified. However, if I vote against the option >> -- the option shall win!! > If there are 45 total votes, quorum is met. 23 votes is more than > 22. Why shouldn't Manoj's candidate lose? He has less votes. Votes against do not contribute to Debian's concept pf a Quorum. > In Manoj's example he talks about there already being 44 votes and > him adding another, which goes on to make his candidate fail (as > quorum is now met), instead of the vote being void. > Does this same argument still apply if the 22 against votes occur, > followed by 23 for votes? Why should this vote be invalid? I think you are missing the point. The order does not matter -- the issue is that a person opposed to the option does not know, in a low turnout situation, whether voting against an option would help the option win. > Or are you arguing that votes against an option cannot count towards > quorum? In which case, each option would have to meet quorum > independently to win. That wouldn't be a good definition of quorum. But that is indeed what we have come up with. Quorum, and majorities, are a per option thing; allowing us to consider several solution, with differing majority and participation requirements, on the same ballot. manoj -- Bershere's Formula for Failure: There are only two kinds of people who fail: those who listen to nobody... and those who listen to everybody. Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/> 1024R/C7261095 print CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C