On Wed, Mar 07, 2007 at 04:16:13PM +0100, Raphael Hertzog wrote: > On Wed, 07 Mar 2007, Wouter Verhelst wrote: > > > 1/ Why do you think that alone you'll be able to take consensual > > > decisions if > > > you fear that you're not able to convince a small set of open-minded > > > Debian developers? > > > > It's not about being able to take consensual decisions; it's about the > > fact that for a Debian Developer who's not a member of the board, having > > a board to talk to when there's a problem takes a lot more effort than > > having just one person (the DPL) to talk to. > > As I explained, you can bring up an issue to the board simply by > convincing one member of the board to do it, you don't need to discuss > with everybody if you don't want to.
There is a difference between bringing up an issue and having it approved. > On the contrary, it opens more possibilities of interactions with the > DPL, since you don't have to rely on a single person but you can > choose one out of a set (consider the case that the DPL elected is > someone that you don't really like, then having choice is > interesting). > > > Then there's also a bunch of procedures that need to be created in order > > to simply be *able* to take decisions as a group. > > Sure. But will you as DPL take decisions without consulting anyone? No, and that was exactly my point. > I don't think so. The board is only formalizing a bit more who are > your advisers and make sure that the advisers are known to the rest of > the project. Those procedures do not get added, they replace an > internal process of self-conviction that you have to follow anyway if > you're DPL as an individual. It's not unlikely for the DPL to decide whom to ask for feedback depending on the issue at hand. With a board, you likely don't do that. > > Sure, it's a lot easier to reach consensus when there's 10 people to > > talk to rather than 1000 people; but I feel that's looking at it from > > the wrong side. A proposed board *still* needs to listen to the group of > > 1000 people to be able to form an opinion that is in the best interest > > of the entire project, so you're not really solving anything. > > There's no way you can listen alone to 1000 people. Sure; but then, having 10 people rather than just 1 isn't going to solve that, either. > Those 1000 persons are spread over 160 mailing list and you probably > subscribe to one or two dozens of the mailing lists. With a board, you > certainly have a broader coverage of the project. I did not contest that. [...] > > > 2/ Do you agree that the proposed board is a good compromise for a > > > group representing Debian's diversity (in terms of opinions at > > > least) while still consisting mainly of open-minded people with > > > good communication skills? > > > > No. I think doing so would only really be possible if Developers were to > > align themselves in groups of likeminded people, much like political > > parties. > > Huh, I was asking for comments on the actual composition of the board that > I proposed... I never implied that the mere existence of a board > guarantees a good representation of Debian's diversity. Oh, okay. Well, that might perhaps be the case, but it's not relevant to what I think is a problem with the board, as I explained above. > > > 3/ Aren't you convinced that your projects are good? > > > > Sure I am. > > > > However, it's not about what I think; it's about what the project thinks > > is good. If I want to propose changes to our social culture, but most > > people in the project think that's not necessary and that our social > > culture is just fine, then who am I to go ahead and forcibly change > > stuff anyway? > > If you're not elected, it doesn't mean that your platform is bad, simply > that someone else platform's was preferred. Our election method has ways to show the difference between "someone else's platform was preferred" and "most people disliked your platform". I will act according to the vote. -- <Lo-lan-do> Home is where you have to wash the dishes. -- #debian-devel, Freenode, 2004-09-22 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
