-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA384 On Fri, 9 May 2025, Simon Josefsson wrote:
>> So, with all the updates, maybe something like this? > >I read this now, and think it is an improvement so I'll second this >version too. OK, thanks. >I realized that I have one additional generic concern: You claim that >models are a derivate work of their training input. Yes. This is easily shown, for example by looking at how they work, https://explainextended.com/2023/12/31/happy-new-year-15/ explained this well, and in papers like “Extracting Training Data from ChatGPT”. It is a sort of lossy compression that has shown to be sufficiently un-lossy enough (urgs, forgive my lack of English) that recognisable “training data” can be recalled, and the operators’ “fix” was to add filters to the prompts, not to make it impossible, because they cannot. >A small comment: > >> ⅱ. Any existing package with a “model” inside that already had the >> very same model before 2020-01-01 has an extra four years time >> before bugs regarding these models may become release-critical. > >Why 2020-01-01? Couldn't we be generous here and say that if someone >was in the initial Bookworm release then it is eligible for this >exception? At least DALL-E predates bookworm, from a quick search. I’m not entirely sure when this craze began. If you’d rather have it expressed in terms of releases I’d choose bullseye here instead, to be sure. But, okay, let’s be generous here to cut discussion a bit. Counter-Proposal -- Interpretation of DFSG on (AI) Models (v3) ========================================================= Please see the original proposal for background on this. The counter-proposal is as follows: The Debian project requires the same level of freedom for AI models than it does for other works entering the archive. Notably: 1. A model must be trained only from legally obtained and used works, honour all licences of the works used in training, and be licenced under a suitable licence itself that allows distribution, or it is not even acceptable for non-free. This includes an understanding that “generative AI” output are derivative works of their inputs (including training data and the prompt), insofar as these pass threshold of originality, that is, generative AI acts similar to a lossy compression followed by decompression, or to a compiler. Any work resulting from generative use of a model can at most be as free as the model itself; e.g. programming with a model from contrib/non-free assisting prevents the result from entering main. The "/usr/share/doc/PACKAGE/copyright" file must include copyright notices from all training inputs as required by Policy for “any files which are compiled into the object code shipped in the binary package”, except for inputs already separately packaged (such as the training software, libraries, or inputs already available from packages such as word lists also used for spellchecking). Regarding availability of sources used for training, the normal rules of the non-free archive apply. 2. For a model to enter the contrib archive, it may at runtime require components from outside of Debian main (such as drivers for specific hardware it is designed to run on), but the model itself (including any training input that ends up in the model) must still comply with the DFSG, i.e. follow below requirements for models entering main. If a model requires a component outside of main at build or training time that changes the model itself (e.g. training data, or training software part of which ends up in the trained model), it is only admissible to non-free. 3. For a model to enter the main archive, all works used in training must additionally be available, auditable, and under DFSG-compliant licencing. All software used to do the training must be available in Debian main. If the training happens during package build, the sources must be present in Debian packages or in the model’s source packages; if not, they must still be available in the same way. This is the same rule as is used for other precompiled works in Debian packages that are not regenerated during build: they must be able to be regenerated using only Debian tools, waiving the requirement to actually do the regenerating during package build is a nod to realistic build time and resource usage. 4. For a model to enter the main archive, the model training itself must *either* happen during package build (which, for models of a certain size, may need special infrastructure; the handling of this is outside of the scope of this resolution), *or* the model resulting from training must build in a sufficiently reproducible way that a separate rebuilding effort from the same source will result in the same trained model. (This includes using reproducible seeds for PRNGs used, etc.) For realistic achievability of this goal, the reproducibility requirement is relaxed to not require bitwise equality, as long as the resulting model is effectively identical. (As a comparison, for C programs this would be equivalent to allowing different linking order of the object files in the binary or embedded timestamps to differ, or a different encoding of the same opcodes (like 31 C0 vs. 33 C0 for i386 “xor eax,eax”), but no functional changes as determined by experts in the field.) 5. For handling of any large packages resulting in this, the normal processes are followed (such as discussing in advance with the relevant teams, ensuring mirrors are not over-burdened, etc). The Debian project asks that training sources are not obtained unethically, and that the ecological impact of training and using AI models be considered. Transitional provisions: ⅰ. Any bugs resulting from this GR shall not be release-critical before Debian trixie has been released as stable. ⅱ. Any existing package with a “model” inside that already had the very same model in the initial bookworm release has an extra four years time before bugs regarding these models may become release-critical. [End of proposal.] Thanks for the discussion, //mirabilos - -- <cnuke> den AGP stecker anfeilen, damit er in den slot aufm 440BX board passt… oder netzteile, an die man auch den monitor angeschlossen hat und die dann für ein elektrisch aufgeladenes gehäuse gesorgt haben […] für lacher gut auf jeder LAN party │ <nvb> damals, als der pizzateig noch auf dem monior "gegangen" ist -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIcBAEBCQAGBQJoHozPAAoJEHa1NLLpkAfgr+kQAMHhGac5ieY+8h0yYGUW5dpR 0B6e5d0JsQyaE9wmqBVej+dnGkts7Jtz5T42e2t0AEiXpgNYfLvWUFX6nAjwpDJW reuvZRzynd2IYVxnadP0J/gX35R8ldqD8VXZFIs0McNsl5pmqxJRioYkB3lRXDjh McDZwc4LqR3ey6cW6ay7a7NG+ak8N5QAGmSF3y4fYDLVDKZxW73gJqrq81HOBJpp I76CL+JEpipEQ/AZHB/gdD/ldnc2EdtiHIOn7IpuFLKcgN6LJW9mpIDJ/IcWX2jE ZZ4lLcGdzhdZb4MovEisSmomkO6VMb+Qs22R34KkMlaOTA9ne5cmUPG3eJDHR7oP bTTb06AV7C0Mqtn7X0Am/x8R2suFqOu437RXmI+VA4NqMVQmWhOMvY4cQoTMr3h1 VWY/JtxwzcIhZE0WyC9Y6htX4AyGX23aNgCVVuo93w/Kq80e/57fjtuVAlUIesCN EwyQjou4RYUS/R6mVVeU8FopRR/BlYnu8kb6nBzm6o8oQBOQVZ0eLNIe7Yq2IEv7 Mm1fFpRH8oQfYvbVjx6DCllIshMegCorYd6dBClYIeN+ItbxTWSWln7STHuqfSHi mhVL05whqvBHdNiAiHtz5Mlc72gp65R6Fi0aH9jxErQ8iNIO9e33mCABnxPvONC7 kDHW9ujNAmPqLlJJIrv1 =RYP4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
