Hi, Here is my siatution, if it's not to late:
my citation : "Here is the real world" (translate this into 'matrix') PS: Sorry to use a movie's citation, I have so studied human's language... (it's for the future, Nietzsche) Cheers, Greg Le jeudi 16 juin 2005 à 13:01 -0700, Patty Langasek a écrit : > On Thu, Jun 16, 2005 at 09:57:14AM +0200, martin f krafft wrote: > > also sprach Clytie Siddall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005.06.16.0521 +0200]: > > > > "Somewhere I won't be asked for sex in the middle of a technical > > > discussion." > > > If that happened, then your peer was just an asshole and even though > > it may or may not have been possible, you should have just moved on. > > I can perfectly well imagine women despising men that talk to them > > with the thought of sex in their heads, be that in Debian or in > > a bar. Nevertheless, it's a very natural thing to do. > > > It /is/ a very natural thing to do, which is part of the reason Erinn and > Amaya wanted to create this environment to help encourage women to get > involved in Debian (and open source projects in general). We /shouldn't/ > have to put up with this as a rule and just *ignore* it or move on when it > happens *often*. And, it does. This should be an issue that can be tackled > and destroyed eventually, but this is exactly why Debian-Women exists - an > environment to encourage people to get involved where they *don't* have that > unneeded pressure and completely tasteless attitude. > > > > I can understand perfectly well that such behaviour may feel > > condescending or diminishing for the female peer, who is basically > > being reduced to her sex independent of conversation topic or > > environment. Nevertheless, rest assured: this isn't something us > > evil men are out to do. Our mission is not to reduce women to their > > body. Our mission is, well... whatever our mission is, a man's > > brain basically switches to low power consumption mode in the > > presence of a raised hormone level. True to the spirit of Immanuel > > Kant, we thus aren't inherently bad people because it's not our > > intention to let them hormones take over and make us act like > > animals. > > > It's rather brave of you to speak for all men in general, especially when I > have seen some very tasteless, crude and crass comments *myself* just for > being on IRC (not necessarily from guys within Debian, but I think part of > that is my last name warding them off). There are some men, indeed even in > Debian, who believe that women are just that - available for reproduction > purposes to "fulfill their debts and obligations to society". > > And while you may not be inherently bad people because it's not your > intention to let "them" hormones take over and make you act like animals, > you are *still* responsible for your actions and what you say. Giving an > excuse like hormones just gives an excuse for the behavior. It does nothing > to fix it and force "you" to live civilly and platonically with women. > > In short: If a man is ruled by his hormones and takes no responsibility for > his actions and reduces women to their most basic sexual and animalistic > levels, then quite frankly? I have a hard time believing he belongs in a > professional society in general. He is certainly someone with whom *I* don't > want to communicate and while I can place him /ignore and /dev/null his > messages to mailing lists, I can't expect every other woman to do the same. > > > > So Clytie, if you come across as sexy to your male peer, live or > > over IRC, you should really not blame them for losing control. :) > > > And this is where I grind my teeth, and the whole reason why I had to wait a > full day before responding to this message (I just couldn't resist > responding, afterall). If I come across as sexy to my male peer, I most > certainly *do* expect him to keep control and if he loses control, I most > certainly *do* blame him. I like to think that the human race, as a whole, > has evolved from caves, matted hair, picking lice, fleas and ticks off each > other and communicating with crude pictures and grunts. If I come across a > man who hasn't seemed to have evolved with the rest of us, I usually take it > on as my personal mission to send him back to those caves where he belongs. > > > -- > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > Patty Langasek > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > At times, you may end up far away from you; you may not be > sure of where you belong, anymore. But home is always > there... because home is not a place. It's wherever your > passion takes you. > --- J. Michael Straczynski > > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
