From: David Brennan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>> The issue is not number of words but clarity and readability.
>> Sometimes more words increase readability. But not always.
>
> I agree entirely. In the case of ansi join syntax, when laid out the
> way I have I think it does improve clarity particularly for people
> less able to think in SQLese. For someone like yourself it is probably
> hard to improve on the syntax you are used to using.
SQL (standard syntax) is really quite simple, especially when compared
to complex languages like Delphi which we manage to take in our stride.
I've never had any trouble learning SQL (yes, I can remember back then),
and I find your suggestion that my brain has somehow always been
particularly configured for SQL processing to be a little unlikely...
:-)
>> My issue with ansi join syntax isn't really the word JOIN, or even
>> LEFT, RIGHT and INNER - more having to have the join clauses thrown
>> into the from statement. IMO, it breaks up both the list of tables
>> and the list of join clauses to have them there. But the keyword
>> JOIN can mislead. If I write "from A join B on ... join C on ...
>> join D on ...", there is an implied hierarchy, A to B to C to D. But
>> what if B, C and D are logically detail tables off A, and that is
>> their only relation? How do you write a statement that doesn't
>> mislead?
>
> Agreed - Ansi join syntax doesn't specify which tables are providing
> the columns for the joins and arguably makes it more difficult to work
> this out by obscuring the on/join conditions with extra keywords.
> However interpreting the way the tables are being joined comes down to
> interpreting "a.staff_id = b.manager_id" in either syntax so I don't
> think the difference is major.
Well you've used ansi syntax more than I have, but I still find it
hateful to deal with. Yes, if I used it enough I'd get used to it, but
the same argument applied to learning "vi" in Unix. More telling to me
is discovering that the whole issue of how you format the damn stuff to
be readable is a point of contention in itself!
> Leaving it up to you to generate the joins correctly is great if you
> don't want to specify the join but it must have caused many an error
> over the years.
My assertion is that ansi join syntax is cluttered, and not easily
readable. Whatever it may gain (if anything) in the way of reducing
errors at the time of SQL composition is doubly lost due to increased
effort required when it comes to be maintained, IMHO. Ah well, I guess
if you won't rewrite mine then I won't rewrite yours... :-)
(http://joel.editthispage.com/stories/storyReader$47).
Cheers,
Carl
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