OK, thanks. I'll try this again... :) David
----- Original Message ----- From: Daniel John Debrunner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Friday, October 21, 2005 3:00 pm Subject: Re: VOTE: Shared Components Guidelines, Version 27 of the page > David Van Couvering wrote: > > > Hm, I was assuming the Wiki would be around and data isn't lost; any > > revision is available through the Info link on a page, and I > think even > > deleted pages remain in the system. How is the Wiki less > "durable" than > > an email archive? Is it not being backed up? I would actually > think> it's a better repository because you can actually find stuff > much easier > > than having to trawl through email lists, and it can be formatted so > > that it's easier to read and follow. Also, other Apache sites have > > policies on their web pages, which I'm sure were voted on (see for > > example the link I have to the Jakarta Commons versioning > policy). Do > > our policies have to be in email form only? > > I'm not being clear. Let me try to be explicit. > > - A proposal can be discussed on the lists and summarized in a > wiki, or > even developed on a wiki along with the e-mail discussion. > > - I believe the vote e-mail for the policy must include, in-line, the > text of the policy that we are voting on. > > - If the policy passes then it can be reflected on a web-site, in a > wiki, in a blog, wherever. > > - However, the official record of what was voted on, in case there are > any questions later on, is the e-mail thread in the archives. > > > > I'd like to challenge that the Wiki site can not be part of the > official> repository for an Apache project. We have email > archives, we have SVN, > > we have our web site, those are all official. What is it about the > > Wiki that makes it different? I agree with you that pointing to a > > mutable page for a vote doesn't work, but if I can point to a > specific> version, I'm not sure what is missing. > > What makes it different is that e-mail communication and e-mail > archivesare the way that decisions are made and archived on Apache > projects.That's clearly understood and is a common trait for all > Apache projects, > and covered in the "how it works" section of apache.org. I'm 100% sure > that the ASF makes sure it's e-mail archives are secure and > recoverable. > Wiki's are a new feature, I have no idea how the ASF infrastructure > views them, it's interesting to note I can't find any mention of > them in > any of the apache.org 'how it works' pages. > > > > The quote "communication is done through mailing lists" -- I > think the > > intent is more about the spirit of communication through Internet > > mechanisms than a strict rule about a particular Internet tool, > IMHO. I > > don't know if it's right to be exclusive when other and perhaps > better> communication Internet communication mechanisms can be used > to improve > > the quality of communication. I thought the main point was that > > communications are recorded and public, vs. private and not > recorded.> If we have a voting page, the policy is stored on the > Wiki, pointing a > > page with a specific version number, and the vote discussion > happens on > > email, what is missing? > > I think the intent is mailing-lists, and there is some project that > explicitly states this (can't find it though), and states it in an > apache-wide way, not specific to that project. > > I think it's good to ask if the wiki is an approved archive for an > apache project, I'm just not sure it is seen that way by the ASF in > general.Dan. > > >
