Hi Christoph, all,

Christoph Noack wrote:
> [...]
> Am Dienstag, den 30.11.2010, 01:03 +0100 schrieb Bernhard Dippold:
> > Sorry for being unclear - my question is: Why can't we use the same 
> > icons for application and documents?
> > 
> > Who needs to differ between application and document? 
> Well, as I said, it is common to provide different application icons -
> but you are right that we do have a "special case". There is almost no
> (at least, I don't know about any) application that is a) one
> application, that b) provides different modules, and that c) supports
> that many file formats.

Where the main file formats are linked to one module each...
> Just a side note (I forgot to add this in my last mail): The document
> symbol is - of course - also a "promotional" / "branding" element. But
> this would be kept for case "a".
> Finally, as we say in German (you know), "special problems require
> special solutions" ;-)
> Given the fact, that time is running ... I'm totally fine with that. So
> as far as I understand, we end up with:
>       * 1 LibreOffice main icon (derived from the document symbol)
>       * n LibreOffice document icons = application icons
>       * n LibreOffice document template icons
> Correct?

I'd support this approach. If it works, we can consider to keep it in future. 
If not, community branding will contain different document and application
icons again.
> The one thing, I'm still thinking about is, whether we should keep the
> common document metaphor (dog-ear style) for the document icons and the
> templates.

In my opinion the TDF document symbol is easily recognized as "common 
document metaphor", even if it's dog-ear is unfolded.

That's one of the main advantages of this symbol: It is close enough to the
standard metaphor, but distinct enough to transport it's identity and to avoid 
plagiarism claims by whoever might have the right to do so.

In my eyes the TDF symbol would be the best basis for our initial icons:

- It strengthens our initial branding design by repeating the design elements 
already used in several places.

- It strengthens the link between LibreOffice and the Document Foundation by 
refering to TDF on the user's desktop.

- It is recognized as "document" and allows addition of the sub-module's 
symbols, so users will know about the content of their files at the first sight.

- It avoids implementation of new branding elements that will probably be 
replaced when out community branding will be established. 

- As part of the initial branding these icons will be recognized as 
design until the community branding becomes true and can be replaced without
negative effects.

One point has to be considered on the other hand:

TDF symbol icons will modify the TDF symbol by changing it's color and adding 
the module symbols to it. 

There are probably people thinking that this would weaken our brand recognition.

I don't think so: Certainly we should try to protect the TDF symbol from 
icons containing arbitrary symbols. We don't want to have a multitude of icons
and symbols changing every now and then.

But we are able to define branding and design guidelines that contain our icons 
as part of the main initial branding. This doesn't allow others to add symbols 
the TDF icon - it's up to *us* to decide, if a new graphical element should 
part of the main branding or not.

We can reject further modifications and additions to the TDF symbol. But in my
eyes this restriction should not apply to the LibO icons: People will recognize 
in our LibO icons (and vice versa) leading to a strengthend rather than to a 
weakened brand.

 ... and even this decision can be rejected after a testing phase, when we 
the final community branding.

> @ Ivan, Thorsten, Bernhard, ... I'm sorry that I am a bit less creative
> how to proceed. The last days (and also the upcoming) at work were/will
> be very hard ... so I'm happy if anybody could take care of that. Of
> course, I'm still around for discussions or helping with the icons.

I'll be working on some more drafts tomorrow on plane and train, but for the 
of the week I'm at a symposium on intensive care medicin at Hamburg, so I don't 
really know at the moment how much time I'll be able to spend and when I'll have
Internet access.

Best regards


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