Hi again, just a quick reply ... I'm on the run :-)
Am Samstag, den 16.07.2011, 03:56 -0400 schrieb Christopher Lee: [...] > "Christopher, I noticed several times that you wrote something like > > "doesn't seem ... hard to implement" where it is - in fact - hard work. > > So although I don't know if you are a developer working on LibreOffice > > (by the way, I'm not a programmer), we should ask on the dev list for > > such effort estimations." > > (first, sorry if this doesn't display properly for others as quoted text-- > I'm away from my normal mail client!) Mmh, works for me ... btw. [...] > 1) The framework for moving interface elements already exists in almost > every program we use. But in the case of displaying buttons (and I'd have > to check on this one, so I could well be wrong!), it's changing the order in > which the elements are inserted-- the backend code that actually handles > what happens when the button is pressed doesn't need to be changed. Concerning the latter, that's true. But what I was referring to was the "fixed" layout of most of the dialogs (apart from the simple message boxes). The buttons are, as far as I know, manually specified within a pixel grid - so changing the button order for those dialogs is (without layout manager) quite some work. So each of the dialogs to be reworked ... then it'll be better to transform the today's dialogs with the help of a dialog manager. > 2) One thing LibreOffice has been commended for is merging many important > fixes from the Go-oo project with LibreOffice, as well as tidying up the OOo > codebase. On top of that, we also have a lot of talk about a major > interface overhaul. I see significant reason to believe that while code > will be recycled, its quality will likely be audited and that if a new > interface is to be built, modularity and customization will probably play a > big part. True as well. At the end, "someone" has to do the modularization and customization - so I think starting with small steps will us steadily get us in a position where we can think about larger changes. > Hope this clears things up, sorry if it sounded presumptuous! :) Thanks - enjoy your day! Cheers, Christoph > On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 3:29 AM, Andrew Pullins <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > > > I agree with what you're saying, but I think people tend to be at least > > > somewhat more cautious in an office program and after one or two mishaps > > > with the okay button (save all before closing, anyone?) people learn. > > > > > > lesten people are stupid and when you get a hundred messages poping up > > every > > day they do not read them. the message could say "clicking yes will > > destroy > > your project would you like to proceed Yes No Cancel" and some will still > > click yes because they are tired of having popup's. > > > > > > > We shouldn't really be trying to protect the user from themselves, and > > most > > > seem to get along fine the way it is (verbs anyway, not that I disagree > > > with > > > this). > > > > > > why shouldn't we try to protect the user from themselves. I know its not > > like they are going to leave because they keep messing up with our program. > > but every other program is starting to realize that this is a problem. > > and > > if we are going to try to change all the dialog boxes any way so that > > depending on weather your on Linux, Mac, or Windows it looks the same as > > every other program on that system, witch we should do to because > > to reduce confusion and inconvenience. why not change them so that the user > > does not make the wrong choice because they only read the buttons. > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 2:29 AM, Christoph Noack <[email protected] > > >wrote: > > > > > Hi Christopher, hi Nick! > > > > > > Nick, thanks for your feedback - and I don't know whether this helps or > > > not, but it is a known issue for some years now. Unfortunately, changing > > > that (in a way that it makes real sense) requires to use something > > > called "Layout Manager", so that we can switch button orders depending > > > on the platform. > > > > > > At least, I've documented that some time ago in the Design Team's "What > > > We Need" list: > > > > > > > > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Kick-Off/WhatWeNeed#LibreOffice_Technical_Basis > > > > > > The last time I talked about that with some developers was at the Fosdem > > > in February - the work seems a bit stalled at the moment (or let's say: > > > nobody actively picked that topic). > > > > > > So if anybody wants to work on / advertise that topic - highly > > > appreciated. > > > > > > Am Freitag, den 15.07.2011, 21:06 -0400 schrieb Christopher Lee: > > > > We shouldn't forget that LibreOffice is a cross-platform program and > > > > that we may also want to consider that people will expect similar > > > > behavior from the program no matter where they're running it. On the > > > > other hand, the order of the buttons really doesn't seem like it would > > > > be hard to implement. Maybe obey system defaults and have an option to > > > > rearrange? > > > > > > Christopher, I noticed several times that you wrote something like > > > "doesn't seem ... hard to implement" where it is - in fact - hard work. > > > So although I don't know if you are a developer working on LibreOffice > > > (by the way, I'm not a programmer), we should ask on the dev list for > > > such effort estimations. > > > > > > I this recent case, it's almost no problem to change the button order > > > for one dialog - but the issue is that we do have hundreds of them > > > hard-coded. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Christoph > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Christopher Lee > > > > Executive Director > > > > Champion Debate > > > > > > > > > > > > On Friday, July 15, 2011 at 9:03 PM, nick rundy wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > LibreOffice presently uses a Microsoft Windows command button layout > > in > > > its Dialog windows even when installed on a Linux distribution. Linux > > > installations of LibreOffice should conform with the command button > > layout > > > that is standard with virtually all other linux applications. For > > example, > > > MS Windows displays "OK Cancel." Linux displays "Cancel OK." > > > > > I've uploaded some screenshots to illustrate what I'm describing ( > > > http://imgur.com/a/Tmmn1#X7ym4). Notice how the screen shots conform > > with > > > how MS Windows lays out its command buttons instead of how Linux > > > applications display them? > > > > > > > > > > MS Windows: Save Discard CancelGNU-Linux: Cancel Discard Save > > > > > MS Windows: OK Cancel Help ResetGNU-Linux: Reset Help Cancel OK > > > > > -- > > > > > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to > > [email protected](mailto: > > > [email protected]) > > > > > Posting guidelines + more: > > > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > > > > > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ > > > > > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot > > be > > > deleted > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [email protected] > > > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > > > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ > > > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be > > > deleted > > > > > > > -- > > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [email protected] > > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ > > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be > > deleted > > > > > > > -- > Christopher Lee > Executive Director > Champion Debate Camp > Co-Captain > Thomas Jefferson Policy Debate Team > > --The Gunboat Debater-- > -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [email protected] Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
