Hy I just come back from holidays and check my mails so sorry to be late. It's just to say your idea is great. Really. It will help a lot to see what need to be done. I think changing priority and adding tasks should be something to ask and discuss on this mailing list with only our leads able to make the changes. I think it offers flexibility while staying strict.
Maybe this have already been sayed, but I have so much mails to read I must read very fast. Just to +1 ;) Kévin --- Sent from gmail for Android Le 27 oct. 2011 23:55, "Christoph Noack" <[email protected]> a écrit : > Hi Nik, > > before you'll never get a reply from my side ... :-) > > Am Dienstag, den 25.10.2011, 14:52 +1100 schrieb Nik: > > Hi Christoph, Klaus-jürgen, All, > > > > Thank you both for your input, you thought of a number of things I > > didn't. I'm going to try condense your questions and provide short(ish) > > responses so that this thread does not become large and > difficult-to-follow; > > Cool, thanks! > > > *Klaus-jürgen mentioned;* > > 1. Who will determine the priorities? I think mostly our lead(s). > > 2. Who will determine where to put an item (active - on-hold)? > > 3. As I understand your proposal, the items will be more different than > > the work-item-list [1]. Will you/we make a list to collect the different > > items before 1st of november? > > 4. The status "On hold" won't be necessary because then it will be in > > the "ON-HOLD" list > > 5. The status "Being finalised" won't be necessary because then it will > > be in the "completed archive" list or you must have a coloumn "Status" > > in this list, too. > > 6. What is the difference between "In proposal" an "In progress"? Maybe > > this should be described. > > 7. What will happen, if someone tells that he wants to work on a > > "ON-HOLD" item, but the list of active items is 'full' and the others > > don't think it is extremly neceassary to work on it? We won't prevent > > him to work on it. Example: Aleksander made some (great) design > > proposals "out of time". > > 8. Maybe this example can be a extra list: "GENERAL items" with no > > priority. > > 9. I'm not sure if we shouldn't colour the "On-HOLD" list, too > > > > *My suggestions regarding these very pertinent questions;* > > 1. When added, the member adding should assign a priority of discussed > > on this mailing list and then put there initials in brackets alongside > > the number, eg: 3(NS). The Team leads will review this priority when > > they get a chance and their reviewed ranking shoulod just be accepted to > > keep things going. SC members who frequent this list (Charles, Italo) > > would also be able to review priorities. Our Mailing list should not > > become endless discussions and contradictions of our priorities, that is > > why we appointed Team Leads. > > Fine. > > > 2. Same as above, with every person making a decision adding their > > initials alongside. > > Fine as well. > > > 3. That is a good point I hadn't considered. Can someone help me > > establish the current status and contacts for each of the existing > > tasks. (just add it to the bottom of the current wiki task list page to > > avoid complicating this thread). > > I can help you, but I'm offline from tomorrow/Saturday until Wednesday. > > > 4. Good point. But I kept the "on-hold" status to make it easier to > > cut-and-paste a record easily between the ACTIVE tasks and the ON-HOLD > > tasks. Ths way less editing is required. > > Sure. From experience I'd say these are small things that can be tweaked > afterwards ... I've refined the Agenda and Minutes for the OOo Community > Council several times - so no worries. > > > 5. I think we need a "Being finalised" to indicate work is complete on > > the task, but we need to wrap things up (like providing a graphic in > > another format, or waiting on word from the printers etc). It will also > > give us a final "push" to finish the job. > > Fine, although this might be optional ... if we start to have such a > fine grained tracking, a percentage value might be more helpful > (although project management experience tells us that 80% of the time > tasks reside between 95 ... 99%) ;-) > > Thinking of that, I suggest to have a "last update" information. That > really helps to find orphans / clean up stuff that lies there for too > long. Having that in a separate columns makes this even sortable. > > > 6. In proposal means that requirements for the task are still being > > established, while a task In-progress already has requirements defined > > and is currently being worked on or available to be worked on. > > Mmh ... I think we should simply say that its in progress. Although I > love processes (and thus the separation of requirements collection vs. > solution creation), I think such fine grained status might be added to > the proposal itself (if required). > > > 7. Being realistic I think we all know we can't "force" everyone to play > > the same game. We shouldn't. When additonal "out of time" contributions > > are made, we should accept them and move on to what is required. The > > task list on the Work-items page should be to provide focus for the > > regular contributors to this team. It should give direction and make the > > "endorsed" work items clear to anyone wanting to help in our everyday > > operations. Right now, that is not so clear. > > Okay, the "should provide focus (=guidance) for the regular contributor" > is okay to me. > > > 8. If we define such a generic list, I'm afraid everything will be > > stored there, we will relax our focus on delivering results. We should > > instead be more rigid: A task is either a) being worked on b)suspended > > due to external influences or c)complete. No lee-way. > > Sounds fun ;-) > > Just a question - what about new items that don't need to be active, > where do these get added. To the On-Hold list, status "in proposal"? > (Sorry if I missed that ...) > > > 9. I'm not opposed to that, but I'd prefer if the only colours on the > > page were alongside things that can be worked on. > > > > And Christoph I'm going to snip alot of your Email to so I can keep my > > responses just as "snappy"; > > > > > > On 11.10.25 08:10, Christoph Noack wrote: > [...] > > > So, where do we currently work on tasks and have some task management? > > > * http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design#Work_Items > > > * http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards(already > > > having a simple Recent Topics / Past Topics section) > > > * Bugzilla (usually smaller tasks) > > > * libreoffice-ux-advise (usually smaller tasks, if bigger, then > > > moved to a Whiteboard) > > > > Almost everything should remain functioning like it does now, but > > detailed info should move to Whiteboards and the Work items page should > > serve as a short linked index to all our tasks. Something to look over > > quickly. > > Personally, I'd like to avoid doubled statuses (e.g. Whiteboard page and > tasks page). Then it gets a bit tricky ... I already work on two or > three Whiteboard tasks that might be less relevant to others. So to me > its active ... How would that look like on the Tasks list, if we only > have 4 active items? > > > > Back to your proposal - would it help to change the objective of the > > > tasks list? My take ... a rough proposal: > > > * Larger task will (should) automatically require a Whiteboard > > > page. The whiteboards overview page might benefit from your > > > proposed structure. > > > * Smaller tasks that new contributors (with varying skills) > might > > > take, should go to a separate section like EasyTasks / > > > StarterTasks. A similar structure to the task list (which > still > > > keeps the fun) is required here. > > > * All other tasks that are less urgent, nobody takes care of > > > quickly should go to an "Open Tasks" list. Just to not forget > > > them ... > > > * Bugzilla and libreoffice-ux-advise should stay as they are. > > > > > > What do you think? > > Larger tasks: listed on Work-items page with a link to its Whiteboard > page. > > Smaller tasks: Leave them on this mailing list, we should try to keep > > the work-items focused. > +1 > > > I do not want the Work-items page tables to be about "types/categories" > > of tasks, I want them to be about the "stage/lifecycle" of that task. > > Just active, suspended or done. That's all that matters if we are trying > > to keep it simple. > > > > > > > > Color coding means that somebody has to decide on the priority ... > > > > > Yep. You! Or Bernhard. > > Generally a member can do this and you can review the prioritisation. > > We shouldnt' get tripped up over this. We elected you both because we > > trust you and this is an example. > > When you get the chance review the priorities, otherwise they will be > > worked out on-list with little discussion hopefully. > > Less talk, more "DO". > > =) > > Hehe, hope that will work fine for everybody ... > > > > >> * We need to have deadlines, > > > Yep, if we agree that these should guide but hurt (in terms of > > > deadlines). > > > > I think they should hurt us if we don't meet them. This is about > > establishing Design as a team that delivers and can be counted on. Even > > if nobody else tracks this, we should. My proposal: every day that a > > project/task runs over schedule should be counted and displayed on our > > Design wiki "home" page. A bad (high) number will hopefully urge us to > > get it done to salvage our worth as a part of this community. A good > > (low) number can be a source of pride amongst ourselves that we deliver > > when people need us. It will be our performance indicator. > > Here, I object ... the deadlines should help us to coordinate the work > in advance. But as long as few people actively contribute its hard to > balance many of the tasks. And since "normal life" sometimes happens, > nothing should hurt. > > > > >> * We need to have a client and a representative who speaks on > their > > >> behalf. > > > Yep. At least someone will send the request ... > > > > > > However, I think another helpful thing would be to provide information > > > that tells what we need if someone requests a certain item (I've > > > collected some ideas for visual design elements, but did not send them > > > to the list / wiki yet ... maybe the next task). > > agreed, the requirements should be specific and in the examples, I've > > demonstrated that every requirement should be a deliverable and > > measurable item. Something identifiable as a satisfactory outcome or not. > > >> * We need to be organised and update this ourselves > > > True, but this will need help by everybody ... which I currently miss a > > > lot. We have many people on this list, but only veeery few who are > > > active (whatever small or larger task it may be). > > Any volunteers to help with this? we have 150 suibscribers. > > Someone might be interested in helping whip us into shape? > > <insert_contributor_name_here> > > > >> and most drastically; > > >> > > >> * *We should LIMIT the number of active tasks to just 3-4.* > > > Mmh, I really like that for my own stuff ... when looking back at the > > > last weeks, my work might have appeared a bit unfocused. (Which it > > > wasn't, of course *g*). However, can we really limit the number of > tasks > > > for if people are free to chose where to spend effort? > > > > > > If we can agree that "active tasks" means something like "Tasks in > > > Focus", then I'm fine. > > > > We need to start taking this seriously. We can only get so much done in > > the time we have. > > That means to need to start prioritising HARSHLY! > > We need to be realistic and we need to push back if we can't do it. > > Otherwise we will let everything be added as a task and nothing finished. > > It works in COUNTLESS methodologies. > > Fine, but let's be a bit flexible and allow some change in priorities if > that's required due to external circumstances. > > > > >> What do you think? > > >> > > >> > > > Well, maybe more input that you've expected ... you should surely read > > > it as "being happy that you kicked that off" :-) > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Christoph > > > > Sorry if any of that sounded harsh. I'm on wireless, battery is dying > > and this needed to be sent. > > Let's get active! > > Thanks for that - really, really, appreciated :-) > > I'm not on wireless, the laptop's battery is fine, but I'm running out > of energy. So, good night everyone! > > Cheers, > Christoph > > > > -- > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [email protected] > Problems? > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be > deleted > -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [email protected] Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
