Hi Christoph! And thanks for the words of welcome. Wow, that's a long list of thinks, that are important for a design update. I thought, that it is much. But as much as here? You write "The interaction concept has to be worked out (at least 80%)." What do it means? That not everything works? I think the hardest is - but IMHO one of the most important -, to make a interface, which is unique, and one which has recognition. Okay, bad example, but Windows Office have a more or less good, but unique design. The icons of LO looks so glad, but on every PC or Mac it looks diverent. Probably I imagine it still too easy. What can be a first step, I can do? Make more thumbnails or write changes down?
Daniel 2011/11/18 Christoph Noack <[email protected]> > Hi Daniel! > > Did I already say "welcome to this list", I don't think so. So, "Welcome > to this list!" ;-) > > Am Freitag, den 18.11.2011, 21:38 +0100 schrieb Daniel Steyer: > [...] > > I see the android version from Mirek. It looks similar. > > I wonder, if there are plans in your team for make a new outfit for > desktop > > pcs or everything remains as it is now in general? > > That is an often raised question ... and the answer is not easy. > > First, if you look at LibreOffice 3.5 (the development version) there > are already some tiny but helpful / nice changes in comparison to the > recent OOo. > > For example: > http://artax.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~kendy/blog/archives/monthly/2011-06.html > > Or: > http://cedric.bosdonnat.free.fr/wordpress/?p=818 > > And many more ... but of course that is not a complete new user > interface that greatly improves usability and visual design. Basically: > * You need to know what users you have and what they want to do. > Currently, a first user survey has been done ... others may > follow. > * The interaction concept has to be worked out (at least 80%). > You'll find some ideas (like yours) on this mailing list or in > other sources. But working it out, needs lots of care. > * The concept needs to be tested / verified somehow (no _good_ > idea how to do this whilst limiting the effort). > * Before implementation, you need to remove clutter from the > today's LibreOffice. That's the "tiny things" I've talked > about ... and there are many more. > * You need to "divide" the UI concept to make it possible to > handle the changes. Both for the development and for the > designers. > * You need developers being able to work on such large changes > (and having enough resources). As you may know, many news devs > currently start with smaller tasks ... it takes time to do > larger changes. > * Same for the visual designers ... only changing / updating all > the icons will take ages, since there are thousands of them. > > So, yes, we are thinking about improvements. But from my point-of-view, > we'll need to address to address smaller issues first. That cleans up > LibreOffice and developers and "we" learn to work together. For example, > some ideas from your work might be picked ... > > Of course, this is an open-source project, so we are free to work on the > concepts right now. If they are good (understandable and manageable), I > think developers will pick it up. > > Well, I hope it helps more than it confuses ;-) > > > Best regards > > Daniel > > > > P.S.: Hope you can read it ;) > > Read yes, understand - hopefully ;-))) > > Enjoy your evening! > Christoph > > > 2011/11/18 Christoph Noack <[email protected]> > > > > > Hi Daniel, hi Mirek, all! > > > > > > Hey guys, thanks for the great activity on this mailing list. I'm so > > > insanely sorry that I was unable to spend time for LibreOffice during > > > the last days. We had a very tough (but insightful) conference at > > > work ... > > > > > > Since I plan to start working on libreoffice-ux-advise, the only thing > > > I'll do today is to translate parts of Daniel's proposal (see below). > > > I've tried to translate via Google, but some of the thoughts did not > > > survive ... I hope my automatic/manual translation (done in a hurry) > > > will help you to get some insights. > > > > > > @ Daniel: Thanks for the proposal! And just feel free to write in > > > English ... we all are from different countries and "somehow" use > > > English. If something is unclear, everyone should feel free to ask :-) > > > > > > @ Mirek: Cool Android proposal ... great "rightsizing" of (visible) > > > functionality for that tiny device :-) I'll have to think about that, > > > since I'm unsure about the "toolbar sliding" to access further > > > functionality. (Does anybody remember the SO 5.x toolbar?) > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Christoph > > > > > > ### > > > > > > I am a user of the software and find the project great. However, it > > > bothers me now simple the UI is, when there e.g. is such a great logo. > > > > > > I'm not a real talent, but I'd like to present some thoughts - how the > > > design might look IMHO. I've tried to ensure that no new code > (features) > > > are needed (as far as I understand). At the moment, its rather > > > reordering and making better use of space and graphics. First, please > > > let me introduce my ideas, then I'll add a few comments. > > > > > > Looking forward for your thoughts ... but please remember these are > only > > > drafts. > > > > > > [Image: libre_text.png] --> Writer > > > [Image: libre_tabelle.png] --> Calc > > > [Image: libre_praesentation.png] --> Impress > > > > > > As you can see, I have worked on the three "main programs". What's new? > > > "LibreOffice" is now more present, and I used reduced versions of the > > > icons and rearranged those. Each program uses its own color (I have > used > > > the Primary Colours). I also tried to remove all the duplicate > commands: > > > for example on file and as an icon. > > > > > > All commands from "File" are now placed next to the title at the right > > > side (instead of "presentations" so there could also be the name of the > > > document). > > > > > > "Save" is now very visible. This is important, because it has to be > > > found quickly. Instead of the grayish look (when the document is > already > > > saved), it now prints the text "document is saved". > > > > > > Furthermore, all the open documents can now be found in the first row. > > > The current one can be closed on the black X. > > > > > > Below is a fat bar with a double down arrow. There are some secondary > > > commands which have been available in the first row: the commands from > > > "File", "Edit", etc. The user can specify whether this bar should be > > > shown expanded per default. But, I also greatly reduced the number of > > > comments - the commands in "File" and "edit" are almost gone. For > normal > > > writing, however, these are available with one click but will save > space > > > if not required. > > > > > > The last line is actually the same as before. The gray gradients are > > > omitted, instead everything is bright and less saturated. Only the > > > Primary Color for the application is used. > > > > > > The rest remains as it is. For example, all the features than can be > > > accessed via right click (context menu) remain. (Here, I don't > > > understand what Daniel wanted to say). > > > > > > I felt it was important that all icons could be enabled like today - or > > > somehow reached. But, the majority of users might not need such an > > > amount of features. Therefore, we should hide most of the functionality > > > after the installation. However, the design should be the same on all > > > platforms (Windows PCs, Macs, Linux PCs). > > > > > > What's the benefit? More user will download it, it will be a huge > > > difference with regard to the old OpenOffice.org. We will have some > > > differentiation ... and users will be really aware of it. Furthermore, > > > the design is more Tablet PC friendly. > > > > > > ### > > > > > > > > > > > > Am Freitag, den 18.11.2011, 19:33 +0100 schrieb Daniel Steyer: > > > > Ich bin selbst Nutzer der Software und finde das Projekt großartig. > > > > Allerdings stört mich das mittlerweile recht schlichte Design, wo es > > > > doch > > > > z.B. ein so tolles Logo gibt. > > > > Ich bin kein wirkliches Talent, habe mir aber mal ein paar Gedanken > > > > gemacht, wie das Design mMn aussehen könnte. Dabei habe ich darauf > > > > geachtet, dass keine neue Codes (soweit ich das überblicke) notwendig > > > > werden, es ist nur ein Umordnen und Bessernutzen des Raumes und der > > > > Grafiken. Nachfolgend meine Ideen, danach noch ein paar Sätze dazu. > > > > Bin auf > > > > Feedback gespannt. Sind nur Entwürfe! > > > > > > > > [image: libre_text.png] > > > > [image: libre_tabelle.png] > > > > > > > > [image: libre_praesentation.png] > > > > > > > > Wie man sieht, habe ich mich erstmal mit den drei "Hauptprogrammen" > > > > beschäftigt. Was ist neu? "LibreOffice" ist nun präsenter, außerdem > > > > wurde > > > > die Standardversion der Icons reduziert bzw. umgeordnet. Jedes > > > > Programm > > > > findet sich in seiner eigenen Farbe wieder (ich habe die Primary > > > > Colours > > > > benutzt). Wichtig war mir vor allem, dass die große Zahl an doppelt > > > > vorzufindenden Befehle verschwinden: z.B. über Datei und als Icon. > > > > Alles, was sich unter "Datei" fand, ist jetzt direkt neben dem Titel > > > > zu > > > > finden (statt "Präsentationen" könnte dort ja auch der Name des > > > > Dokumentes > > > > stehen). Sehr präsent ist jetzt "speichern". Das ist wichtig, weil es > > > > ja > > > > nicht mehr ganz links ist und trotzdem sofort gefunden werden muss. > > > > Statt > > > > dem Vergrauen, wenn es keine zu speichernden Änderungen gibt, steht > > > > statt > > > > "speichern" dann dort "gespeichert". Neben der ersten Reihe finden > > > > sich > > > > dann alle sonstigen geöffneten LibreOffice-Dokumente. Das aktuelle > > > > kann > > > > über das schwarze X geschlossen werden. > > > > Darunter befindet sich eine fette Leiste mit einem Doppelpfeil nach > > > > unten. > > > > Dort sind sekundäre Befehle versteht, was bisher über die erste Reihe > > > > mit > > > > "Datei", "Bearbeiten" etc. zu erreichen war. Der Nutzer kann > > > > einstellen, ob > > > > die Reihe standardmäßig ein- oder ausgeklappt erscheinen soll. > > > > Allerdings > > > > ist auch diese start reduziert, "Datei" und "Bearbeiten" entfallen > > > > bereits > > > > größtenteils. Für das normale Schreiben allerdings kann so noch mehr > > > > Platz > > > > gespart werden, und trotzdem ist es mit einem Mausklick erreichbar. > > > > Die letzte Zeile ist eigentlich wie bisher. Nur wird auch hier auf > die > > > > scheußlichen Grau-Farbverläufe verzichtet, alles ist angenehm hell > und > > > > nicht voll mit Farben, sondern auch hier ist die Primary Colour die > > > > Hauptfarbe. > > > > Der Strich darunter trennt noch einmal Schreibfläche von > Befehlsfläche > > > > ab. > > > > Darunter folgt die Schreibfläche mit etwas dunklerem Hintergrund. Der > > > > Rest > > > > bleibt. > > > > Auch ales Andere, was z.B. über Rechtsklick erreicht werden kann, > > > > bleibt. > > > > Nur sollte die Linie hier durchgezogen werden und auch alles grau > > > > durch ein > > > > angenehmes Weiß ersetzt werden. > > > > Mir war wichtig, dass weiterhin alle Icons wie bisher zugeschalten > > > > oder > > > > erreicht werden können. Allerdings braucht die breite Masse wohl kaum > > > > so > > > > eine unglaubliche Masse, darum sollte nach der Installation erstmal > > > > nicht > > > > ganz so viel für die leichte Orientierung vorzufinden sein. Wichtig > > > > wäre > > > > aber, dass das Design fest ist, sprich auf allen PCs, Macs und > > > > Linux-Rechnern gleich aussieht. > > > > > > > > Was hat LibreOffice davon? Mehr User laden sich das runter - es ist > > > > für die > > > > breite Masse ein riesen Unterschied gegenüber dem alten OpenOffice. > > > > Man > > > > grenzt sich davon ab. Sicher, im Hintergrund gibt es ständig neue > > > > Verbesserungen. Aber das wäre eine Verbesserung (hoffe, dass es eine > > > > ist), > > > > die den Usern direkt bewusst wird. Außerdem kann man sich hier > > > > schonmal für > > > > die Zukunft wappnen - das Design ist Tablet-PC-freundlich. > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [email protected] > > > Problems? > > > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > > > Posting guidelines + more: > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > > > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ > > > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be > > > deleted > > > > > > > > > -- > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [email protected] > Problems? > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be > deleted > -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to [email protected] Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
