Hi Carlos, all,
Sorry if it came across as overdramatic; it's just a bit frustrating
that the service isn't working as intended, and we've been stuck for
almost a year on resolving it (and that it's been impacting both Matrix
& GNOME as a result). The fault of the delay lies originally on the
Matrix side (we were dealing with operational issues in Apr 2019) and
more recently on the GNOME side (the lack of response to my various
emails pleading to finish standing up the service).
To be clear, if people were using the server we stood up at
https://gnome.modular.im (which was intended to be
https://chat.gnome.org, had the process been finished), then the vast
majority of the Matrix<->IRC issues would be nonexistent and everyone
would be much happier.
Perhaps the solution to this is for folks to just go use
https://gnome.riot.im (or connect their Matrix client to the
https://gnome.modular.im homeserver) for now if they want use the
dedicated GNOME matrix server, and perhaps in future it can be given
proper *.gnome.org branding.
thanks,
Matthew
On 14/02/2020 13:40, Carlos Soriano wrote:
Matthew,
On April 19th 2020 we completed the server set up configured as
agreed. After that, we though everything was done and ready, and as
you probably remember we did actually informed the community about the
improved services [0]. That the previous answer to this thread make it
sound like it has been on hold because of us since then is not correct
and I believe it has more drama on it than it needs to be.
We do truly appreciate the services, because you are right that it's
beneficial for both organizations and we want GNOME contributors to
have the best experience regardless of the service they are using.
However, I hope you understand our careful consideration on what steps
we follow here, as we care about not putting the community in a
position that would be difficult to go back from. This is specially
true around branding, external services and official recommendations.
I don't see a reason why we couldn't make the IRC bridge performance
ok with this requirements in place, so let's continue working on
making that happen as we have been doing.
Thanks,
Carlos
[0]
https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2019-March/msg00015.html
On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 at 01:00, Matthew Hodgson via desktop-devel-list
<desktop-devel-list@gnome.org <mailto:desktop-devel-list@gnome.org>>
wrote:
Hi folks,
Sorry for the delay in response here - the last 24 hours have not
been fun.
Trying to address the main bits of feedback here:
1. The original issue that Michael Catanzaro reported (Matrix->IRC
PM going missing) was a legitimate bug in the bridge. The bridge
is meant to display an error if you try to talk to an absent IRC
user; this was fixed today and will be deployed tomorrow:
https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-appservice-irc/pull/978.
Sorry that you got bitten by this :(
2. In terms of: "We currently have loads of garbage IRC users in
the channels after the bridge hosted at matrix.org
<http://matrix.org> was replaced with one hosted at the gnome.org
<http://gnome.org> homeserver." - I thought we'd cleared this up
in the days following the migration, and this is the first I've
heard of it still being a problem. It sounds like the old bridge
created IRC users on the Matrix side, and then the new bridge
bridged them back over to IRC. It should be trivial to kick out
the old bridge's IRC users - please can you give me an example
channel/room where this is happening to look at?
3. In terms of bridge performance: we set up a dedicated bridge
and server for gnome.org <http://gnome.org> powered by modular.im
<http://modular.im> back in April 2019. The bridge got put live,
but the server was never publicised because we never got a
greenlight to announce its existence (plus the go-live was
eclipsed by some unrelated security dramas on the matrix.org
<http://matrix.org> homeserver). As a result, the majority of
users have been using the bridge via the public matrix.org
<http://matrix.org> server, which is (unfortunately) often
overloaded thanks to the exponential growth we've been dealing
with. However, if folks were actually using the dedicated GNOME
server, then it would be an *excellent* experience - much like the
one that Mozilla is enjoying currently. It's worth noting that we
provided the GNOME server for free because we want to support the
project, but the running costs are significant - it's been very
frustrating that the server has not been used. (It seems that
some people have found it anyway over the course of today, to
quote someone in #general:gnome.org <http://gnome.org>: "OMG the
IRC bridge is SO much faster on this instance."). I'm hoping that
we can get a greenlight to point people at the Gnome.org server,
as right now the situation is indeed terrible and it's hurting
Matrix's reputation as well as hurting GNOME :((
4. Mozilla *are* running their homeserver federated (as of this
week) -
c.f.https://twitter.com/littledan/status/1227603567722319873
<https://twitter.com/littledan/status/1227603567722319873>.
They're countering abuse by using the arsenal of anti-abuse
tooling we've been working on over the last year as per
https://matrix.org/docs/guides/moderation/ and
https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-doc/blob/msc2313/proposals/2313-moderation-policy-rooms.md
etc.
You may also be interested that the core Matrix team is starting
to look seriously at the work going on around Fractal,
particularly around E2E encryption, to accelerate E2E encryption
for Rust clients in general. Specifically, we're porting
pantalaimon (the Matrix daemon which offloads E2E encryption) from
Python to Rust, and we hope that the resulting official
E2EE-capable Matrix Rust SDK will be directly usable by Fractal
and help the project along massively as a first class native
Matrix GTK client (assuming they want to use it! :)
So, TL;DR: we've had a solution to much of the Matrix<->IRC
problems since April 2019, we just need to actually use it.
I'm sorry this has taken so long to sort out - I genuinely hadn't
realised that things were so bad.
thanks,
Matthew
On 13/02/2020 20:28, Carlos Soriano via desktop-devel-list wrote:
Hi folks,
We been in contact with Matthew from Matrix for some time
already. I lately didn't have much time to invest on this, so we
had have some delays on answering. However, it's our expectation
that with the set up that we have right now the IRC bridge should
perform as its best, as we are using servers from modular.im
<http://modular.im>, the company that maintains paid severs with
matrix services on them. We believe our set up is correct, but
there might be some miss configuration somewhere, or the current
situation it's already the best that can be offered.
We'll update you as soon as we have more information.
Cheers,
Carlos
On Thu, 13 Feb 2020 at 17:16, Michael Catanzaro
<mcatanz...@gnome.org <mailto:mcatanz...@gnome.org>> wrote:
On Wed, Feb 12, 2020 at 4:15 pm, Britt Yazel
<bwya...@gnome.org <mailto:bwya...@gnome.org>> wrote:
> Attached is an image of the compact mode + dark theme. Just
for the
> record.
The thing is, it really comes down to personal preference. I
suspect we
have a lot of people who like web clients, and a lot of
people who just
don't. With open protocols like IRC, XMPP, or Matrix, where
lots of
client choice exists, you can use whatever you prefer. It's
no problem
if you don't like any particular client because you can just
use a
different one.
Myself, I like to see GNOME clients: polari, dino, fractal,
chatty.
They look good next to our other apps, and vindicate the
potential of
our desktop platform. But if we're going to have a web
client, at the
very least do it using WebKitGTK, like Revolt does, to stick
with GNOME
technologies and avoid bundling Electron.
I'll also suggest: whatever we use, it'd be nice to select
something
with the potential to become a widely-accepted standard, like
IRC used
to be. Chat has become a failed disaster area of fragmented
walled
gardens, and when we have a choice between an emerging
standard and yet
another silo, I think there's tremendous value in choosing
the standard.
Michael
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Matrix.org
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