are there any instructions on how to join the slack workspace? On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 9:57 PM Sid Anand <[email protected]> wrote:
> Thanks for the context. > > So, I created the slack workspace and it has ~ 100 people on it now and it > pretty active. > > What's pretty cool is that some folks created regional channels (e.g. > singapore, boston, etc...), which is a good way to seed future meetups. > > At some point, we may want to retire the Gitter channel. > -s > > On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 11:45 PM Jakob Homan <[email protected]> wrote: > > > So, binding VOTEs are generally only called on releases, where PMC > > members get those binding votes (and on electing new committers or PMC > > members, and those votes happen in private on the private list). > > Communities often call VOTEs on other things, like logos, questions of > > sponsorship, large scale tech decisions, etc. How those VOTEs are > > executed (consesus [ie anyone with a binding vote can VETO] or > > majority) are up to the community to decide. > > > > The community can codify those decisions with bylaws (Here's Hadoop's: > > https://hadoop.apache.org/bylaws.html). However, extensive bylaws are > > considered an anti-pattern - they can be indicative of a fractured or > > unwieldy community. This is why Incubator projects are not generally > > recommended to go down this route. Also, incubator podlings are not > > separate top-level projects, and so would be governed by the Incubator > > project bylaws, which as far as I can tell, don't exist. > > > > Also, keep in mind that the bylaws of any particular project are valid > > at the pleasure of the Board. If the Board deems any part of them > > invalid, which it has done even very recently, it can come in and > > require the project to change them immediately. > > > > As for the current discussion, the large number of <1 votes, is a bit > > concerning. This is indicative of lack of consensus and that further > > discussion is probably warranted. Whether or not it's an official > > result is up for debate. > > > > However, one thing worth noting is that there's no 'official' gitter > > or slack channel for any ASF project. The only official communication > > medium for ASF is mailing lists. The edict 'If it didn't happen on > > the mailing list, it didn't happen' is one of the axioms of the Apache > > Way [1][2]. There's also no official IRC channel or official Stack > > Overflow tag or official in-person meetup. Every member of the > > community is welcome to participate in whatever forum they want, but > > the only place things actually happen is on the list. Any non-PMC > > discussions can happen anywhere, but if a decision needs to occur as > > part of that discussion, the discussion needs to be re-homed onto the > > mailing list and made there. Part of the PMC's job is to enforce and > > model this behavior. > > > > Speaking entirely for myself, I'm not comfortable with the invitation > > model of Slack discussions. For most of my time at Apache, irc was > > the way to go for most projects. Some had very active irc channels > > and some were nearly dead. (The #infra irc channel is a godsend > > though.) > > > > And again, this type of meta discussion is awesome. It shows the > > project is maturing and thinking through some of the edge cases of > > what it means to an Apache project. > > > > -Jakob > > > > > > > > [1] > > > https://community.apache.org/newbiefaq.html#NewbieFAQ-IsthereaCodeofConductforApacheprojects > > ? > > [2] > > > https://blogs.apache.org/foundation/entry/success-at-apache-asynchronous-decision > > > > On 8 September 2018 at 23:14, Sid Anand <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Taking Binding votes into account : > > > > > > +1: 1 vote > > > > > > - Sid Anand > > > > > > 0: 2 votes > > > > > > - Bolke de Bruin > > > - Kaxil Naik > > > > > > -0.5: 1 vote > > > > > > - Arthur Wiedmer > > > > > > > > > Vote result is a net positive of +0.5. > > > > > > I counted all of the PMC/committers' votes as binding. > > > > > > -s > > > > > > On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 11:07 PM Arthur Wiedmer < > [email protected] > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > >> Sid, > > >> > > >> Erm, the next line is (emphasis mine) : > > >> > > >> PMC members have formally binding votes, but in general community > > members > > >> are encouraged to vote, even if their votes are *only advisory*. > > >> > > >> Again, that's not to say that the community at large cannot decide to > > host > > >> a Slack channel. I think you are more than welcome to if you want to. > > >> > > >> Best, > > >> Arthur > > >> > > >> On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 10:59 PM Sid Anand <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > > >> > Why doesn't every vote matter for this topic? > > >> > https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html#binding-votes > > >> > > > >> > Am I misinterpreting the "Who is permitted to vote is, to some > > extent, a > > >> > community-specific thing."? > > >> > > > >> > For the established Apache processes around promoting a contributor > to > > >> > committer/PMC, deciding on the number of +1s to allow a merge to > > master, > > >> or > > >> > voting on releases, I understand the need to follow the > > >> binding/non-binding > > >> > protocol. In all of those cases, the outcomes affect maintainers. > > >> > > > >> > My understanding is that this topic affects the entire community, > > where > > >> > some members of the community are helping others. This seems to chug > > >> along > > >> > without maintainers being present. Hence, why do maintainers' votes > > >> matter > > >> > more here? > > >> > > > >> > Question for the mentors.. Jakob? > > >> > > > >> > -s > > >> > > > >> > On Sat, Sep 8, 2018 at 10:27 PM Bolke de Bruin <[email protected]> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > Committers can only vote binding. Most of the time it is tagged > by, > > >> > > indeed, adding "binding" to the vote. > > >> > > > > >> > > Sent from my iPhone > > >> > > > > >> > > > On 9 Sep 2018, at 07:20, Scott Halgrim < > [email protected] > > >> > .INVALID> > > >> > > wrote: > > >> > > > > > >> > > > What makes a vote binding? Just putting “(binding)” after your > > vote? > > >> > > >> On Sep 8, 2018, 10:19 PM -0700, Bolke de Bruin < > > [email protected]>, > > >> > > wrote: > > >> > > >> Sorry sid, only binding votes directly count to the vote. > Please > > >> > update > > >> > > the > > >> > > >> result accordingly. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Btw did you ask on gitter itself? > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Op zo 9 sep. 2018 03:47 schreef Sid Anand <[email protected]>: > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>> +1: 12 votes > > >> > > >>> > > >> > > >>> - Sid Anand > > >> > > >>> - Steve Carpenter > > >> > > >>> - Beau Barker > > >> > > >>> - Marc Bollinger > > >> > > >>> - Pedro Machado > > >> > > >>> - Scott Halgrim > > >> > > >>> - Eamon Keane > > >> > > >>> - Adam Boscarino > > >> > > >>> - Daniel Cohen > > >> > > >>> - Chandu Kavar > > >> > > >>> - William Horton > > >> > > >>> - Ben Gregory > > >> > > >>> > > >> > > >>> 0: 2 votes > > >> > > >>> > > >> > > >>> - Bolke de Bruin > > >> > > >>> - Kaxil Naik > > >> > > >>> > > >> > > >>> > > >> > > >>> -0.5: 1 vote > > >> > > >>> > > >> > > >>> - Arthur Wiedmer > > >> > > >>> > > >> > > >>> -1: 4 votes > > >> > > >>> > > >> > > >>> - Shah Altaf > > >> > > >>> - James Meickle > > >> > > >>> - Ravi Kotecha > > >> > > >>> - airflowuser (??) > > >> > > >>> > > >> > > >>> The vote concludes with 12 votes for and 4.5 votes against. > The > > >> > > community > > >> > > >>> has opted to move to Slack from Gitter. > > >> > > >>> > > >> > > >>> -s > > >> > > >>> > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > -- Andrew Harmon (202) 615-6433
