On 10 Sep 2014, at 6:49 am, Jared Hirsch <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Sep 9, 2014, at 1:31 PM, Jan Jongboom <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
>> Well you need to enforce PIN because otherwise everyone who finds your phone 
>> can grab all the data, or you should wipe it out whenever someone enables 
>> that menu but you don't want that either I'd say.
> 
> Actually, I think we're fine here - I don't see how this differs from the 
> threat mentioned already.
> 
> If an attacker finds your phone, then presumably you have lost it. In that 
> case, you can use FMD to lock or wipe it remotely.

If you actually set up FMD. If it has battery. If it has network connectivity 
etc. 
> 
> I'm specifically suggesting that we don't need the "developer PIN", but maybe 
> you're referring to the lockscreen PIN? I definitely do think the users 
> should have their lockscreen PIN enabled ^_^

Yeh I agree that is confusing in the doc - we talk about a developer pin code 
which is kept in sync with the lockscreen passcode. Overly complex i think. It 
should just BE the lockscreen passcode.

> 
>> 
>> On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 10:05 PM, Jared Hirsch <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Hi Paul,
>> 
>> Nice work on the proposal! I would love to see us lower the barrier to 
>> hacking on Gaia, I have some feedback below.
>> 
>> BTW, I work on Gaia stuff for Cloud Services; this includes Firefox 
>> Accounts, Find My Device, and prototyping work for backup/restore (though it 
>> seems other people are working on this independently, too). I'm very happy 
>> to discuss user/device security and user identity any time. I'm usually in 
>> #gaia during Pacific business hours.
>> 
>> On Sep 9, 2014, at 5:16 AM, Jan Jongboom <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Monday, September 8, 2014 11:20:02 AM UTC+2, Paul Theriault wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> The challenge we had when talking through this situation previously was 
>>>> that its difficult to distinguish between the device's owner & someone who 
>>>> has just found your phone, and wants to take advantage of developer mode 
>>>> to compromise your phone and/or data.
>> 
>> Find My Device allows users to remotely lock or wipe a lost device. It 
>> shipped in 2.0.
>> 
>> It seems to me that FMD takes care of this particular threat (malicious 
>> person compromises lost device).
>> 
>> So, maybe the user doesn't need to prove device ownership before enabling 
>> certified debugging?
>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> My team has been working on a proposal to remedy this situation:
>>>> 
>>>> - Introduce an "os-developer" mode
>>>> 
>>>> - Provide a way in FTU to have the user choose a lockscreen pass code (not 
>>>> necessarily enabled, just chosen)
>>>> 
>>>> - Add UI into developer settings to enable os-developer mode, which 
>>>> requires the user to enter their passcode
>>>> 
>>>> - When enabled, this mode allows installing and debugging certified apps. 
>>>> When disabled, certified app installation & debugging is forbidden.
>>>> 
>>>> - The user MUST set a lockscreen code during FTU for os-developer to be 
>>>> available. If they do not, os-developer mode is disabled, and can only be 
>>>> re-enabled through the process of a factory-reset then redoing FTU.
>>>> 
>>>> - Note that the user do not have to ENABLE the lockscreen during FTU, they 
>>>> just have to at least choose a passcode. But encouraging users to set a 
>>>> passcode comes with its own benefits.
>> 
>> The "developer PIN" concept and UX seem quite complex.
>> 
>> What if we just add an "enable certified app debugging" checkbox to the 
>> developer menu?
>> 
>> The two goals in the linked google doc are (1) manage security risk from 
>> lost devices, see my FMD comments above; and (2) give users full access if 
>> they want to hack on Gaia. I think my counterproposal here enables (2) with 
>> a lot less work, and reduced barrier to user experimentation (no passcode, 
>> no need to factory reset if you didn't set a flag during FTU).
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Jared
>> 
>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Pros:
>>>> 
>>>> - Allows a way to enable developing of certified apps & Gaia hacking on 
>>>> production, unrooted phones while protecting the user's data
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Cons:
>>>> 
>>>> - A user must set  passcode at FTU (and remember it!), else they wont be 
>>>> able to use this mode without a factory reset
>>>> 
>>>> - In the past there has been pushback on having passcode selection in FTU
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> There are a lot of other details and considerations, but I'll keep it 
>>>> short(er) for now to start discussion. Does anything think this is a 
>>>> useful change or is there a better way to enable certified app debugging, 
>>>> whilst protecting user data? If you are interested, there is a more 
>>>> detailed proposal here: [1]
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Thoughts & suggestions welcome.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> - Paul
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> [1] 
>>>> https://docs.google.com/a/mozilla.com/document/d/11Q1_fj2nKciVyG2PdGH_LuiH09BhZJKzFjBuIcaHKqs/edit#
>>> 
>>> Wow, interesting catch. I alwasy assumed that it was not possible to 
>>> install certified apps on a non-rooted phone. So yeah, any way we can make 
>>> this possible on non-rooted phones will get applause.
>>> 
>>> Pin code sounds like a proper way of enabling this on consumer phones.
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>> 
>> 
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