Hi Mojca an impressive summary ... just provide the patches needed, take a look at 'de' and 'deo' ... we can clone languages so definitions can be shared
concerning conversions ... there are some language specific things, take a look at chinese (s-chi*) > I would suggest you to post some of the questions to the ntg-mailing > list, where more Norwegian users can comment on it. When doing some > changes, the 100% backward compatibility might need to be sacrificed a > bit, bot some changes are worth doing so if others agree and if it's a > contribution towards a better quality. (I CC-ed to two users who seem > to have contributed or complained a bit ;) > > On 2/4/07, Karl Ove Hufthammer wrote: > >> I'm writing this to suggest improvements in ConTeXt's support for the >> Norwegian languages. ConTeXt already has rudimentary support for Norwegian, >> but with some problems. >> >> >> Language codes >> -------------- >> >> The main problem is that ConTeXt use the language code 'no' for Norwegian. >> There actually *is* no written language called 'Norwegian'; Norway has two >> official written languages, Norwegian Bokm�l (ISO 639 language code 'nb') and >> Norwegian Nynorsk (ISO 639 language code 'nn'). The current definitions >> for 'no' in ConTeXt is for Norwegian Bokm�l. (There is a ISO 639 language >> code 'no' for Norwegian, but this should usually be used for spoken >> Norwegian, or perhaps for transcriptions of spoken language.) >> >> The language code 'no' should be removed, and be replaced by the two language >> codes 'nb' and 'nn'. >> > > Although I don't know the exact situation, a few remarks: > > - You should probably also provide the correct definitions for calling > the language (so that one can say \mainlanguage[norwegian], but > perhaps with what you consider to be the proper language tags). It's > currently > > \installlanguage [norwegian] [\s!no] > \installlanguage [norsk] [\s!no] % bonus switch > > You need to fix the two and perhaps add > \installlanguage [???] [\s!nb] > \installlanguage [???] [\s!nk] > > > - If you remove [no], older documents might break. I don't know much > about the situation and the number of users, but can you say which of > the two language variants [no] should default to? Since the current > definitions probably point to "nb" (from the first blick) - would it > make sense to use "nb" when one says \mainlanguage[no]? > > Perhaps one can issue a warning when the language "no" is selected > (statig something like "language 'no' is deprecated, please use 'nb' > for Bokm�l or nn for Nynorsk instead") > > I also asked to replace "si" by "sl" for Slovenian some time ago, but > that was when there was no support for Slovenian yet and "si" stands > for Singhalese (whatever that is). > > For Norwegian the situation might be slightly different since "no" > still means Norwegian, but I don't know how "offensive"/"ignorant" it > sounds to you if that one is used. > > Removing it probably doesn't affect the rest, so if other Norwegian > users agree to remove it completely, it can still be done, but I would > suggest you to ask the author of the original translations and the > rest of users on the ntg-context mailing list first. Otherwise it can > still default to one of the two varians (or to a new one if you > provide also the third alternative for the "spoken language"). > > >> See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_language for a (not too good) >> article on the Norwegian languages. >> >> For the record, the language names used in LaTeX/Babel is >> (unfortunately) 'Norwegian' and 'norsk' for Norwegian Bokm�l, and 'nynorsk' >> for Norwegian Nynorsk, instead of 'bokmal'/'bokm�l' and 'nynorsk'. Norwegian >> Bokm�l support was added first, and used up the 'Norwegian' name. >> >> >> Hyphenation >> ----------- >> >> The two written language are quite similar, and the current hyphenation >> dictionary (nohyphbx) was made to support both. But there are (at least) two >> words which are put in the hyphenation exceptions for this dictionary because >> they would have different hyphenation (because of different meaning) in >> Norwegian Nynorsk and Norwegian Bokm�l. These are: >> >> attende -- nb: at-ten-de ('eighteenth'), nn: att-en-de ('back') >> betre -- nb: be-tre ('enter'/'set foot on'), nn: bet-re ('better') >> >> Would it be possible to have two different hyphenation dictionaries for 'nb' >> and 'nn', which would only differ in the hyphenation exceptions used for >> these two words? >> > > This can be done. Hans was complaining about the mess of (naming of) > Norwegian hyphenation patterns one month ago anyway, I guess that "he > won't mind" adding yet another fix to the scripts ;) > > >> Language setup >> -------------- >> >> Here is an improved/correct version of the language setup for Norwegian. The >> setup for 'no' should be removed. >> >> \installlanguage >> [nn] >> [spacing=packed, >> lefthyphenmin=2, >> righthyphenmin=2, >> leftsentence=---, >> rightsentence=---, >> leftsubsentence=---, >> rightsubsentence=---, >> leftquote=\upperleftsinglesixquote, >> rightquote=\upperrightsingleninequote, >> leftquotation=\leftguillemot, >> rightquotation=\rightguillemot, >> date={day,{.},\ ,month,\ ,year}, >> state=stop] >> >> This is for Norwegian Nynorsk ('nn'), but the same setup is used for >> Norwegian >> Bokm�l (the values used for 'day' differ, though -- see below). >> >> But I am not sure I understand what the four *sentence commands are used for. >> We usually don't use em-dashes in Norwegian, so the entries look incorrect. >> If you can explain what the commands are used for, I can supply the correct >> Norwegian definitions. >> >> I also noticed that the Italian definitions use leftspeech, middlespeech and >> rightspeech commands. What are these used for? >> >> >> Other language-specific settings >> -------------------------------- >> >> Norwegian (Bokm�l and Nynorsk) differs typographically from English in >> several >> other ways. Here is three of them: >> >> We don't (usually) use bullets for the first level of unnumbered lists; we >> use >> en-dashes. >> >> -- Item 1 >> -- Item 2 >> -- Item 3 >> >> Bullets are commonly seen in document created by word processors of US >> origin, >> and in the documents created by people without proper typographic training, >> though. It would be nice if ConTeXt could use en-dashes by default for lists >> in Norwegian text. >> > > The default is to use > bullet, dash, star, triangle > for the four levels if itemization. > > If you want to change the behaviour in your document only, all you need to do > is > \definesymbol[1][\endash] > but I guess that it could be adapted, so that Norwegian documents will > all use endash by default. > > Similar supoprt has already been implemented for Slovenian (to use > different set of characters when itemize uses characters). > > There are two questions: > - do other Norwegian users agree to change the default set? > - what should be the order then? (ie: what character should be used > for the second level of itemization?) > > >> We don't use full stops in numbered lists. In other words, instead of >> >> 1. Item 1 >> 2. Item 2 >> 3. Item 3 >> >> we write >> >> 1 Item 1 >> 2 Item 2 >> 3 Item 3 >> > > That's the matter of > \setupitemize[stopper=] > > I don't know how to set that in a langage-specific way, but it sounds > reasonable me to add it. > > >> The same holds for numbered headings, both in the main text and in the TOC. >> > > But sections already start with > 1 Section name > rather than > 1. Section name > by default. (Support for the second case might be improved in the > future. Or rather: I hope that it will be.) > > >> Would it be possible to support this by default in ConTeXt? >> >> We also use the comma in decimal numbers (3,14 instead of 3.14). >> > > We too. In text this is no problem anyway. Math can be setup in that > way, but I doubt that it's set up in any language (although it could > be). This means that you should better write $3{,}14$ instead of > $3,14$, I don't know about any other consequences, since TeX almost > never writes out any calculated floats in the resulting document. > > >> Norwegian labels >> ---------------- >> >> Here is labels for Norwegian (Bokm�l and Nynorsk). The old 'no' labels should >> be removed. The 'nb' ones are taken from the 'no' ones, but with some >> corrections. >> >> Some comments: We don't usually capitalise the first letter in >> crossreferences. Where one would in English write >> >> See Figure 5.22 ... >> >> we would write >> >> Se figur 5.22 ... (Bokm�l) >> Sj� figur 5.22 ... (Nynorsk) >> > > But when you crossreference, you only get 5.22, you have to write > "figur" manually (you can set up that perhaps, so that you get > "figure" attached to the number, but in any case you need to do that > manually). > > "Figur 5.22" will only be used under the actual image. When > crossreferencing, we use lowercase too, but under the fugure itself I > think that uppercase is OK, at least for our language (since it's > caption of the figure anyway). > > >> But we would of course write >> >> Figur 5.22 viser ... >> (Figure 5.22 shows ...) >> >> The definitions below use a capital first letter. Will this be a problem? >> >> I was also unsure about what the 'lines' label should be. The plural of >> 'line' >> ('linje') in Norwegian (both 'nb' and 'nn') is 'linjer', but we do not use >> the plural when referencing more than one line. Where one would write >> >> The discussion on lines 5--13 ... >> >> in English, we would write >> >> Dr�ftinga p� linje 5--13 ... >> >> in Norwegian. In other words, we use the singular instead of the plural. The >> same holds for the other cross-referencing terms ('Figure', 'Table' &c.). >> >> Feel free to change the 'lines' label to 'linje' if this make it work better. >> > > I don't know where exactly this is used, but I assume that it's for > "List of Figures", "List of Tables". But I don't know exactly, I never > use those. (I have just translated some of them and I hoped that the > first one who will consider them wrong will complain ;) > > Mojca > _______________________________________________ > dev-context mailing list > [email protected] > http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/dev-context > -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Hans Hagen | PRAGMA ADE Ridderstraat 27 | 8061 GH Hasselt | The Netherlands tel: 038 477 53 69 | fax: 038 477 53 74 | www.pragma-ade.com | www.pragma-pod.nl ----------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ dev-context mailing list [email protected] http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/dev-context
