Disclaimer: I work for Mozilla, but not on certificate policy. This is a
personal observation.

On Thu, Sep 8, 2022 at 3:08 AM Michel Le Bihan <[email protected]>
wrote:

> A user visiting the website of a fake shop could check the certificate and
> if they don't know what Cloudflare is, they could believe that the shop is
> operated by an existing company registered in the US and therefore trust
> the (fake) shop.


On the other hand, if it didn't say "Cloudflare" people might think they
--were-- talking directly to the shop, and they are not. They are talking
to a Cloudflare server which could do anything at all with the traffic
before passing it along. You need to know it's Cloudflare before you even
realize you're trusting a proxy to faithfully transmit the traffic.
Besides, all the shop's actual certificate proves is that they were able to
get a certificate for that domain. It does not mean you can trust the shop
because it could well be fake either way.


> A user on a phishing site targeting Cloudflare could check the
> certificate, see Cloudflare in the subject and believe it to be an official
> Cloudflare website.
>

That's a problem for Cloudflare to worry about. They *do* put "
sni.cloudflaressl.com" in the common name which does not match the domain
you've reached and should be a clue.

A user using a website that is using Cloudflare proxy could check the
> certificate and remember that it has Cloudflare in the subject. Then when
> he will be on a phishing website, he will check the certificate subject,
> see the same value and believe it to be oferated by the same entity and
> enter his credentials.
>

Couldn't you say the same about any other cert?  One day you go to
https://mozllla.org by mistake, and when you look at the certificate the
common name matches that and there's no Subject Name at all -- like most
certs. Other than giving you a second chance to catch the typo, how does
that help protect against phishing?  Actually, if you go to the real
https://www.mozilla.org and look at the cert it will say
"www.mozilla.moz.works" which looks totally fake. Names are a terrible
basis for trust.


> ... or various recommendations explaining how to check certificate details
> to asses whether a website is trustworthy should be changed.
>

What recommendations are those? You can't judge whether a site is
trustworthy or not by its certificate. Scammers get certificates all the
time. "Legitimate" companies pay huge fines for having defrauded the public
all the time.

I take your point that it wouldn't hurt if they picked a more descriptive
name. On the other hand, if someone is trying to trust a site "by name" I'd
expect them to look up the name and find out what "Cloudflare, Inc" does.
Either way it doesn't seem like a policy issue that this group deals with.

-Dan Veditz

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