I've made the improvements I suggested yesterday around security
advisory page(s) and some other fixups, pushed them to the staging
area with some more of Tim's changes.

One issue I've noticed that I dont know how to fix is that no matter
what width my browser (Firefox) window is the site still has a
horizontal scroll bar shown even though the page either collapses to
suit smaller windows or there is loads of free space around the
content in larger windows.

Robbie

On Wed, 27 Mar 2019 at 21:06, Timothy Bish <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I've pushed a bunch of additional changes to sync content with what's
> currently in the Wiki and updated the staged website with those changes
> as well.
>
> On 3/27/19 2:44 PM, Robbie Gemmell wrote:
> > I have added ActiveMQ 5.15.9, Artemis 2.7.0, Artemis Native 1.0.0,
> > fixed some broken past-releases links, updated the security-advisories
> > page to match the live one, and added the txt files it links to. I'll
> > work on the other security page improvements tomorrow.
> >
> > I pushed the changes straight to the repo since the site isnt
> > 'properly' live, reverts and further changes can be made later. I also
> > refreshed the staged version on the website based on the changes (plus
> > some from Tim fixing other links).
> >
> > Robbie
> >
> > On Wed, 27 Mar 2019 at 15:43, Robbie Gemmell <[email protected]> 
> > wrote:
> >> Whats there looks good.
> >>
> >> There are some updates needed to refresh for the current state though,
> >> some of which need done before publishing:
> >> - Add the ActiveMQ 5.15.9 release.
> >> - Add the Artemis 2.7.0 release.
> >> - Add the txt files linked to for security-advisories [1, more at end].
> >> - Add details for CVE-2019-0222, CVE-2018-8006, CVE-2017-15709,
> >> CVE-2018-11775 to the updated security-advisories page (staged at
> >> http://activemq.apache.org/activemq-website/security-advisories.html
> >> currently)
> >> - Refresh past releases pages / entries to capture some missing
> >> releases (and fix some broken links on the artemis page).
> >>
> >> I'd like to suggest some other improvements around the security
> >> announcements also. The security-advisories page isn't actually linked
> >> from anywhere that I could see on the new pages, I only found it
> >> knowing the existing link and adjusting. I think it might be good to
> >> add a central security page to the nav menu (replacing the existing
> >> link to https://www.apache.org/security) which then contains general
> >> details including directions to https://www.apache.org/security/ and
> >> also specific pages detailing the issues for each component, such as
> >> the existing page above. E.g we use
> >> http://qpid.apache.org/security.html over at Qpid.
> >>
> >> [1] The txt files the security-advisories page links to for existing
> >> announcements dont seem to be in place in the new structure, so links
> >> to them (above page, and also used in the announcement emails) would
> >> break once published. E.g the existing files are in
> >> http://activemq.apache.org/security-advisories.data/ so accounting for
> >> the 'activemq-website' subdir for the staged new bits, I'd expect the
> >> same to be at 
> >> http://activemq.apache.org/activemq-website/security-advisories.data/
> >> currently (or else some redirection config to where they are, didnt
> >> spot any).
> >>
> >> Robbie
> >>
> >> On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 at 18:54, Christopher Shannon
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>> This looks good Tim, what do others thing about Tim's changes? Are we 
> >>> ready
> >>> for a vote?
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 12:16 PM Timothy Bish <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I sent in a PR with some possible changes to the site repo to better
> >>>> organize and provide a script to build the site contents with the idea 
> >>>> that
> >>>> we'd move towards gitpubsub for the main site once we transition.  Also
> >>>> expanded the README with notes and some basic instructions.
> >>>>
> >>>> https://github.com/apache/activemq-website/pull/4
> >>>>
> >>>> On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 6:37 AM Christopher Shannon <
> >>>> [email protected]> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> So where do we stand on the new website? Our current website is still in
> >>>> a
> >>>>> state where we can not update it which is a major problem.  Well
> >>>>> technically we could make changes to the SVN repo I guess but the sync
> >>>> from
> >>>>> confluence is broken still and my Jira with INFRA has been ignored since
> >>>> I
> >>>>> put it in on Thursday.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So I say we need to vote to push this site out ASAP if it is ready and 
> >>>>> if
> >>>>> no one knows how to fix our current website.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Thu, Mar 21, 2019 at 1:23 PM Christopher Shannon <
> >>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> I'm pretty sure we would need an official vote thread and that voting
> >>>>> here
> >>>>>> doesn't count.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Thu, Mar 21, 2019 at 12:31 PM Justin Bertram <[email protected]>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I'm also about to be traveling so +1 from me as well.  I'll be back
> >>>>> Monday
> >>>>>>> and can pick things up if nothing has progressed.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Justin
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 21, 2019 at 11:07 AM <[email protected]
> >>>> .invalid>
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Im about to be travelling. If this needs a vote here is my +1.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Get Outlook for Android
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 21, 2019 at 4:39 PM +0100, "Christopher Shannon" <
> >>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Can we go ahead and get this site deployed?  Our current site is
> >>>>> broken
> >>>>>>>> because Confluence was updated and our deploy process is now broken
> >>>>> with
> >>>>>>>> SSL errors.  Also I don't think the credentials will work anymore as
> >>>>>>>> confluence now uses LDAP.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> So instead of trying to figure out how to fix it maybe we can just
> >>>>> push
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>> new site.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 20, 2019 at 11:02 AM Christopher Shannon <
> >>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I think writing up a README with detailed instructions would be
> >>>>>>> necessary
> >>>>>>>>> if we want to deploy now.  Everyone with access needs to know the
> >>>>> new
> >>>>>>> way
> >>>>>>>>> to update the site even if it is a manual process.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 20, 2019 at 10:17 AM Justin Bertram
> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> As of now there are no detailed instructions on how to update the
> >>>>>>>> website.
> >>>>>>>>>> As I mentioned, the process is fairly tedious as it requires
> >>>>> working
> >>>>>>>> with
> >>>>>>>>>> both a git and an svn repo. Basically the steps are:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>    1) check out the activemq-website Git repository (
> >>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/apache/activemq-website/)
> >>>>>>>>>>    2) check out the Apache Infra website SVN repo (
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/infra/websites/production/activemq/content/
> >>>> )
> >>>>>>>>>>    3) deploy Git website locally using jekyll
> >>>>>>>>>>    4) make modifications to source content
> >>>>>>>>>>    5) verify changes locally
> >>>>>>>>>>    6) send PR to activemq-website GitHub project
> >>>>>>>>>>    7) once PR is merged take "rendered" content from "target"
> >>>>>>> directory
> >>>>>>>>>> (where jekyll deployed it), copy it to your local SVN repo and
> >>>>>>> commit it
> >>>>>>>>>> so
> >>>>>>>>>> it's available on the live website
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I can write up something more detailed and put it in the
> >>>> README.md
> >>>>> in
> >>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>> git repo if we want to proceed with the manual process for now.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Justin
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 20, 2019 at 5:56 AM Christopher Shannon <
> >>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Do we have instructions yet so others can update the website?
> >>>> If
> >>>>>>> so,
> >>>>>>>>>> where
> >>>>>>>>>>> are they? I wanted to give it a shot real quick locally to make
> >>>>>>> sure
> >>>>>>>>>> things
> >>>>>>>>>>> are ok.  I would be +1 as long as I am able to make updates,
> >>>> etc.
> >>>>>>>>>>> Also we probably need to start a formal vote on this if you
> >>>> want
> >>>>> to
> >>>>>>>> push
> >>>>>>>>>>> it.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 7:11 PM
> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> +1 i agree it be a great triple whammy to have new releases
> >>>> and
> >>>>>>> new
> >>>>>>>>>>> site...
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Get Outlook for Android
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 8:21 PM +0100, "Clebert Suconic" <
> >>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> With ActiveMQ 5.15.9 + Artemis 2.7.0, it would be great to
> >>>> have
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> website updated this week.. It would make it a great week!
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I don't want to push it.. but it would be nice!
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 10:29 AM Christopher Shannon
> >>>>>>>>>>>>   wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah we can deploy now that's fine if people want.  My
> >>>>> comment
> >>>>>>>>>> wasn't
> >>>>>>>>>>> so
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> much even about automation but more about just having a way
> >>>>> to
> >>>>>>>> make
> >>>>>>>>>>>> updates
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> easily. If we can do that through git PRs then that works
> >>>> as
> >>>>>>> long
> >>>>>>>> as
> >>>>>>>>>>>> there
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> are clear instructions for people to follow for updating
> >>>> and
> >>>>>>>>>> deploying
> >>>>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> updates.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 8:38 AM Clebert Suconic
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cant we deploy what we have now manually as rob said and
> >>>>> then
> >>>>>>>>>> figure
> >>>>>>>>>>>> out
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> automation if neeeed?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don’t see the neee to automate but that doesn’t need to
> >>>>> be
> >>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>>>>> single
> >>>>>>>>>>>> task.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> If we want automation we can do that on a second time.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 7:35 AM Robbie Gemmell
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I envisaged people would run the site 'build', and
> >>>> check
> >>>>> in
> >>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> resulting output, e.g. as the Apex project Michael
> >>>> linked
> >>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>> does.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Though perhaps a little work, it doesnt seem like a
> >>>>> massive
> >>>>>>>>>> burden
> >>>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> run the site build. I'd expect it to be something folks
> >>>>>>> should
> >>>>>>>>>> do
> >>>>>>>>>>>> when
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> making updates to the site anyway, to check changes
> >>>>>>> actually
> >>>>>>>>>> work
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before committing them.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 18 Mar 2019 at 19:45, Justin Bertram
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I added the drop-shadow the the "Active" in the main
> >>>>>>> logo.
> >>>>>>>>>> Let me
> >>>>>>>>>>>> know
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you think.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree with Robbie about removing the PMC and
> >>>>> committer
> >>>>>>>>>> details.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> It's
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> an
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unnecessary maintenance burden, and a stale website
> >>>> is
> >>>>> a
> >>>>>>> bad
> >>>>>>>>>>> look.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Here's
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what I propose:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    * Fold the board reports and the PMC/committers
> >>>> links
> >>>>>>>> under
> >>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Apache"
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> navigation menu.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    * Make the PMC/committers link point to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>> https://people.apache.org/phonebook.html?pmc=activemq
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robbie, the issue I see with propagating changes in
> >>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>> website
> >>>>>>>>>>> is
> >>>>>>>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there's an intermediate step where Jekyll needs to
> >>>>> render
> >>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>> HTML
> >>>>>>>>>>>> from
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> markdown, includes, scss, etc. I don't understand how
> >>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>>>>> step
> >>>>>>>>>>> is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> going
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happen. Ideally it would be an automatic process so
> >>>>> that
> >>>>>>> we
> >>>>>>>>>> could
> >>>>>>>>>>>> check
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> markdown changes via GitHub and those changes would
> >>>> be
> >>>>>>> made
> >>>>>>>>>> live
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> automatically.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Justin
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 12:53 PM Robbie Gemmell <
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> About propagation of changes, what often happens
> >>>> with
> >>>>>>>> sites
> >>>>>>>>>> now
> >>>>>>>>>>>> is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that the website (or main) repository contains an
> >>>>>>>> 'asf-site'
> >>>>>>>>>>>> branch
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that in turn has a 'content' sub-directory within
> >>>> it
> >>>>>>>>>> comprising
> >>>>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> live site. Anything outwith that can comprise the
> >>>>> site
> >>>>>>>>>> source.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> The
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> repo is monitored by gitpubsub and whenever changes
> >>>>> are
> >>>>>>>>>>>> committed,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contents dir gets synced to the actual webservers
> >>>>>>>>>>> automatically.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> No
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> build jobs etc needed.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robbie
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 18 Mar 2019 at 15:38, Justin Bertram
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree we need up-to-date information for
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>> http://activemq.apache.org/activemq-website/team/.
> >>>>>>>> Bruce,
> >>>>>>>>>>>> where's
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> official data on who is a PMC member and who is a
> >>>>>>>>>> committer?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I fixed the CMS download issue.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What are the details about the Slack channel?
> >>>> This
> >>>>> is
> >>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>> first
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heard
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of it.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I added the drop-shadow on the "MQ" because on
> >>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>> ActiveMQ 5
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> project
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> page
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the background behind the image is the same color
> >>>>> as
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>> "MQ"
> >>>>>>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> therefore
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it was disappearing. I added the drop-shadow to
> >>>>> make
> >>>>>>> it
> >>>>>>>>>>>> visible. It
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't be hard to add a drop-shadow to the
> >>>> whole
> >>>>>>>> thing,
> >>>>>>>>>>> but I
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think the drop-shadow on just the "MQ" looked any
> >>>>>>>> stranger
> >>>>>>>>>>>> than it
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> different color in the first place.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One thing I'm not really clear on yet is how
> >>>>>>>> modifications
> >>>>>>>>>>>> from the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> activemq-website repo will be propagated to the
> >>>>>>> actual
> >>>>>>>>>>> website.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> read
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about some Apache buildbot thing that might help
> >>>>>>> here,
> >>>>>>>>>> but I
> >>>>>>>>>>>> don't
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much about it yet. Anybody else have any clue on
> >>>>> how
> >>>>>>>>>> that's
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> supposed
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BTW, I'm working up a PR right now, but I wanted
> >>>> to
> >>>>>>> get
> >>>>>>>> as
> >>>>>>>>>>>> much of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as I could before I sent it.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Justin
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Mar 16, 2019 at 6:00 PM Michael André
> >>>>> Pearce
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A few bits we need to work on:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think we need to update this, it was
> >>>> extracted
> >>>>>>> from
> >>>>>>>>>>> current
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> site,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out of date.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>> http://activemq.apache.org/activemq-website/team/
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Seems we are missing cms download page
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>> http://activemq.apache.org/activemq-website/projects/cms/download/
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On the contact side, there is now a slack
> >>>> channel
> >>>>>>> this
> >>>>>>>>>>>> should be
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> added,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and have the same visibility as IRC (could be
> >>>>> added
> >>>>>>>>>> later,
> >>>>>>>>>>>> but
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> note)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the hero sections on the logo side, where
> >>>>> drop
> >>>>>>>>>> shadow
> >>>>>>>>>>>> has
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> been
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> added
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the letters in MQ for Apache Active MQ, it
> >>>>>>> looks a
> >>>>>>>>>> bit
> >>>>>>>>>>> odd
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> just
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> having
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MQ drop shadowed, would it be easy to drop
> >>>> shadow
> >>>>>>> it
> >>>>>>>>>> all.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Clebert Suconic
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Clebert Suconic
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> --
> >>>> Tim Bish
> >>>>
>
> --
> Tim Bish
>

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