All, I’ve done quite a bit of reading on this topic and, now that I feel I’m informed on how things should work given the documentation on the Apache site [1][2][3][4][5], here’s my 2c on the whole discussion.
First I want to clarify the roles and responsibilities of a Committer and a PMC Member according to Apache. Committer[6] A committer is a developer that was given write access to the code repository and has a signed Contributor License Agreement (CLA) on file. They have an apache.org mail address. Not needing to depend on other people for the patches, they are actually making short-term decisions for the project. The PMC can (even tacitly) agree and approve it into permanency, or they can reject it. Remember that the PMC makes the decisions, not the individual committers. PMC Member[7] A PMC member is a developer or a committer that was elected due to merit for the evolution of the project and demonstration of commitment. They have write access to the code repository, an apache.org mail address, the right to vote for the community-related decisions and the right to propose an active user for committership. The PMC as a whole is the entity that controls the project, nobody else. In particular, the PMC must vote on any formal release of their project's software products. The biggest difference I see is that a Committer does not have the power to direct the *long term* roadmap for the project while a PMC Member can, esp. as they (PMC Members) can reject patches as they see necessary for the longevity of the project (including patches from Committers). Additionally I haven’t found any documentation that changes the above definitions in the context for an incubating project. Correct me if I’m wrong here. Now, if we (as the Apex committers / PPMC members) decide that we should remove a majority of us (myself included) then I, personally, am okay with that, but the better question I see would be *why* would we do that? If the idea is to “trim the tree” so to speak and only keep a smaller set of members in power (i.e. as PPMC members) then it is implying that the original set of committers (that were proposed) should not have been so as they cannot effectively direct the project. That’s an issue with the original proposal and, I feel, should be addressed up front if so. More than that though I assume each member that is on the original proposal is actually completely and acutely able to aid in the direction of the project and that is why they were chosen in the first place. If the goal is then to quickly “build back” a larger PPMC committee based on current active contributions I feel that this is going against the Apache Way (whether I like it or not)[8][9] and, esp. for the project, I feel hurts us when considering a genuine goal of moving to a TLP. We should instead use this as an opportunity to further embed Apache Apex into the Apache Way and define what “inactivity” means for a (P)PMC Member and a Committer. Another point I’ve heard is that we want Apex to be very open to new Committers which is amazing, but I want to make a point here that I, as a current PPMC Member, wouldn’t want to be giving away Committership like candy. I would much rather see the Apache Way and its concept of Meritocracy[10] in action. Moreover we, as a community, still haven’t defined (that I know of) a strong set of guidelines that any individual can follow to earn said merit in the project and become a Committer. This certainly shouldn't be construed as a bad thing since we are still a relatively young project and need to work these things out (and I’m sure we will :) ). So, what are my recommendations? 1. Keep the current PPMC and Committer list as they are 2. Establish a set of guidelines on what it takes to be a Committer 3. Establish a set of roles and responsibilities for a Committer on Apache Apex 4. Establish #2 and #3 for a (P)PMC Member as well 5. Most importantly, establish a set of guidelines on what “inactivity” means for (P)PMC Members and Committers Also, because I didn’t want to clog the actual vote thread, I’ve restarted this thread. Forgive me if that upsets anyone. I want to end by saying that this is my first foray in the Apache project lifecycle, the Apache Way, and the general way Apache governs a project. That said I have no clue how other projects have succeeded or failed in the past with these issues, but I can only assume that this is certainly not the first time something like this has happened for a project (nor the last) and I, for one, am confident that no matter what the decision is we, as a community, will continue to strive for what is best for Apache Apex to grow into a truly successful project. Phew, that was a bit long. Candid feedback welcome and appreciated. [1] http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Roles_and_Responsibilities.html [2] http://incubator.apache.org/guides/ppmc.html [3] http://incubator.apache.org/guides/committer.html [4] http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Roles+in+the+Incubation+Process [5] http://apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html [6] http://apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#committers [7] http://apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#pmc-members [8] http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#pmc-removal [9] http://www.apache.org/dev/committers.html#committer-set-term [10] http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#meritocracy > On Nov 11, 2015, at 3:49 PM, P. Taylor Goetz <ptgo...@gmail.com> wrote: > > +1 > > I've seen references in email threads to the effect that there are 6 people > that are/were supposed to form the PPMC, but I've not seen a list of who > those individuals are. Granted, I may have missed it and I haven't done an > exhaustive search of the mailing lists. > > As Justin mentioned, only PPMC member votes are binding for things like a > release, so we need to know this information. We may also have to revoke > karma, but I'd have to check on that. > > Again, my apologies if that list was discussed/documented and I missed it. > > -Taylor > >> On Nov 11, 2015, at 6:28 PM, Justin Mclean <justinmcl...@me.com> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> Also remember that a main practice difference between committer and PPMC is >> that only PPMC votes are binding on releases. Committer votes are not >> binding. I see a lot of votes on Malhar release that state they are binding >> when perhaps they may not depending who exactly is in the PPMC. Would be >> good to clear this confusion up. >> >> Thanks, >> Justin > ________________________________________________________ The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and/or proprietary to Capital One and/or its affiliates and may only be used solely in performance of work or services for Capital One. The information transmitted herewith is intended only for use by the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, copying or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from your computer.
