Hi Linus, On Tue, 2006-06-27 at 00:08 +0200, Linus Tolke wrote: > To sum up: > Tom thinks implementing non-realtime collaboration is easier to implement > than realtime collaboration. > Linus thinks implementing realtime collaboration is easier to implement than > non-realtime collaboration. > > If we have non-realtime collaboration we really don't need realtime > collaboration. > Linus thinks that if we have realtime collaboration we don't need > non-realtime collaboration. Everybody else disagrees ;-). I am slowly > beginning to see the light on this. > > Roy has suggested a good enough first step for non-realtime collaboration in > that it allows partitioning the model physically and logically, pushing most > of the responsibility for maintaining consistency to the user, and without > implementing any of the complicated comparing, merging, tracking > changes-tools nor the management of a model that is partially read-only. Is > this a small enough step to set up as a goal for the 0.24 release of ArgoUML? > > /Linus
Personally, I would be very happy to have the ability in 0.24 to manage ArgoUML models as a collection of logical and physical components. I think it would be a great first step. The message from Jerome from sharengo.org looks very interesting. I will investigate his merge and diff facility with great interest, as soon as sharengo.org makes their next release. Afterward, I will report on my experience to this group. cheers, roy > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Roy Feldman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: den 26 juni 2006 22:31 > > To: [email protected] > > Cc: OSF > > Subject: [argouml-dev] Concurrent Model Development [Formerly UML model > > and CVS.] > > > > On Thu, 2006-06-22 at 02:03 -0400, Tom Morris wrote: > > > This sounds like it's intended to address real-time concurrency, but > > > there are many times when multiple people want to work on a design, > > > but not necessarily simultaneously. Also, collaboration isn't > > > necessarily limited to two people. I think we could get a long way by > > > providing better support for non-realtime collaboration before > > > addressing the realtime piece. This includes support for partitioning > > > models physically and logically, merging models, tracking changes to > > > models, comparing models effectively, etc. > > > > I just want say that my experience with modeling on large projects is > > that you really need asynchronous "non-realtime" collaboration, which I > > think of as concurrent, as opposed to simultaneous, real-time > > development. The latter is great for brainstorming. The former, IMHO, > > is of much greater practical importance. > > > > I think this is particularly true if you are going to use a UML tool for > > more than just documentation. For example, if you are using a tool like > > AndroMDA to do "Model Driven Development", then you are inevitably going > > to need concurrent model development, just like you need support for > > concurrent software development for a conventional software project of > > any significant size. > > > > Doing Model Driven Development, the model is an integral part of the > > source of the application. As a result, you inevitably need to have > > multiple developers owning and modifying different parts of the model. > > Requiring this to be done in a purely sequential fashion is completely > > impractical. > > > > That is one the main reasons that all commercial tools which support > > some form of Model Driven Development, such as "Rational Software > > Architect", support concurrent model development. > > > > ArgoUML, combined with AndroMDA, could provide a serious open source > > alternative to commercial tools like Rational Software Architect, but > > only if ArgoUML supports some form of concurrent model development. > > > > > > > > > > For realtime collaboration, choosing the appropriate level at which to > > > distribute the application is a key design decision. The elements > > > sent to clients can be anything from blocks of pixels, to drawing > > > commands, to ArgoUML meta commands, to model repository commands and > > > events. Each level provides a different set of benefits and costs. > > > The top level (sending pixels one way and mouse events the other) is > > > probably doable today with screen sharing software using an unmodified > > > version of ArgoUML. > > > > > > Tom > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Linus Tolke [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 10:21 AM > > > To: [email protected] > > > Subject: [argouml-dev] Re: [argouml-users] UML model and CVS. > > > > > > > > > Hello all developers! > > > > > > For some time I have believed that the best solution to the > > > concurrent development problem is to allow the running of > > > ArgoUML in a server/client mode. I.e. a server opening and > > > saving the model and clients that have an separate GUI that > > > connects to the running UML Model and Diagram Model. > > > > > > With MDR and eventually the diagrams' model stored in MDR > > > (Diagram Interchange?) this design feels not entirely > > > out-of-reach. > > > > > > The benefits is that there is no merging of models by some > > > other tool. All Diagrams, Tree and Model elements update > > > immediately when someone has made a change, part of this is > > > already in place since we have several GUI elements working > > > against the same models already. Mauro's work can be used as a > > > help for reserving objects to avoid race conditions (if > > > needed). > > > > > > The drawbacks are that this requires that all developers are > > > on the same network but that is not such a big deal since most > > > of us are on the Internet anyway. The developers also need to > > > coordinate on who runs the server and who does not. > > > > > > I would like that you had this possible architecture in mind > > > while pondering about the design of the different layers on > > > top of MDR and the Diagram Model. Issues are with one of the > > > developers moving a Fig in a diagram, how have the other > > > developers' clients registered interest to learn about this > > > move and thousands of similar things... Other issues are with > > > things like Undo. Should each user have their own Undo list? > > > Probably. Will that work? Not always. > > > > > > /Linus > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > > > Från: Linus Tolke [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Skickat: må 2006-06-19 15:52 > > > Till: [email protected] > > > Ämne: Re: [argouml-users] UML model and CVS. > > > > > > Yes, Marco! > > > > > > Your original question was how it is possible to have the > > > model within CVS and my answer is avoid concurrent > > > development. > > > > > > If you want concurrent development, then I there are several > > > different ways and reasons to achieve this. > > > > > > Mauro's paper Usando a modelagem colaborativa no aprendizado > > > da UML available from the ArgoUML web page at > > > http://argouml.tigris.org/docs/ discusses a solution where you > > > do this for the purpose of stimulating collaboration (if I > > > have understood it correctly, I don't read Portuguese). There > > > has earlier been other attempts at this where ArgoUML just > > > opens an extra window (which also can be achieved by running > > > ArgoUML in a NetMeeting/Remote Desktop environment). > > > > > > This is probably not what you want but I want to mention it as > > > an alternative for you to think about. > > > > > > /Linus > > > > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >> Sent: den 17 juni 2006 14:39 > > > >> To: [email protected] > > > >> Subject: [argouml-users] UML model and CVS. > > > >> > > > >> UML is great and ArgoUML is great too. > > > >> > > > >> But with respect to MDA I was wondering how it would be > > > possible to > > > >> develop UML model in a CVS as well as we develop today a > > > java class. > > > >> CVS can resolv conflicts on java files but not on ArgoUML > > > files > > > > because > > > >> they are binary files. > > > >> > > > >> And even if we use xmi I not sure CVS can resolv conflicts > > > if xmi > > > > export > > > >> do not take care to export objects always in the same > > > sequence. > > > >> > > > >> Any ideas about it? > > > >> > > > >> Regards, > > > >> Mar > > > >> Compilo subAdministrator > > > -- > > > Ing. Marco LOMBARDO > > > ============================= > > > Mayking spa > > > Via Brescia 31 > > > 36040 Torri di Quartesolo (VI) > > > Cell +39 347 1979448 > > > Uff +39 0444 267561 > > > Fax +39 0444 269945 > > > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Skype: lombardomayking > > > web: www.mayking.com > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
