>From looking into that other tools are doing, looks like docker engine does
not allows using duplicate names even when it uses UUIDs, I assume they
made this decision for better UX.
Other management tools(OpenStack and others) follow only uuid as unique
fields.




On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 5:30 PM Vaishnavi K.R <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Thanks Tal.
>
>
> I think many of us are not convinced with the inclusion of the UUID for
> element identification.
>
> As of now, we have ID for the unique identification. So why should we
> restrict the users from giving duplicate names for the service templates.
>
>
> I wish to confirm if anyone has a second opinion in allowing duplicate
> names.
>
> If not, I can raise a JIRA issue and fix it.
>
> Looking forward to your comments.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> /Vaish
>
> ________________________________
> From: Tal Liron <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2017 2:04:50 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Unique identification of an instance element across services
>
> DeWayne, I think you missed parts of this discussion where we answered some
> these issues:
>
> 1) ARIA *does* allow you configure you choice of ID generation, and I agree
> it can be an integration requirement. (We have a JIRA open to give this
> configuration a CLI.)
> 2) ARIA has a choice of UUID formats beyond the very long 36-character hex.
> Base57 is 22 characters and designed for human readability.
> 3) All the costs you mention seem very negligible to me. ARIA's database
> storage is tiny. UUID generation happens only when new nodes are created,
> and is many orders of magnitude faster than storing anything in a database.
>
> It doesn't easy to resolve this issue, as there are two camps here. But I'm
> very convinced that Vaish and I are correct here. :) Node (and service)
> names in the real world are used for other systems beyond ARIA once the
> nodes are installed: names become domain names linked to IP addresses,
> names of operating system services, registration IDs for message queues,
> analytics IDs, etc. For all of these a collision is disastrous, and Vaish
> is right that if it's set up initially by ARIA there is no need to do
> anything else.
>
> The only possible user discomfort is in using the "aria nodes show", which
> frankly is a command that I have never even used myself. As for logs, in
> any install that has more than one service you will be filtering by
> workflow ID or service ID anyway.
>
> Also, in case there was any confusion: we are talking about node names
> here, not database IDs. The database IDs are entirely handled within the
> database and are obviously unique only per table and per installation of
> ARIA. The "name" is an extra column that is uses out in the real world.
>
> If this will have to come to a vote among committers, I will absolutely
> advocate UUIDs by default, and a preference for base57 format. I would
> consider any other kind of default to be broken for real world cloud
> orchestration, and I would be very worried if ARIA is to be broken out of
> the box.
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 11:09 AM, DeWayne Filppi <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > IMHO, obviously UUIDs "work", in the sense that they are "universally
> > unique" and therefore make collisions unlikely.  On the other hand, they
> > are "universally unique", which includes time and space.  There is a cost
> > to that, and it is the ridiculous number of bits used (IOW they are
> > insanely inefficient).  That has a cost both in storage and readability..
> > Also, unless there is a way to mathematically map the UUID to the table
> > index it refers to, the UUID will have to be in the database, and
> therefore
> > the database will be exposed to the user.  Besides bulk, the UUID gets
> > exposed in logs ( and occasionally in the CLI ), which just creates a
> mess
> > and eats storage.   So UUIDs work, but are a last resort, IMO.  Has
> anyone
> > put any thought into a structured ID?  Structured IDs are far more useful
> > and user friendly (readable) and potentially compact.  I think it would
> be
> > good to at least exhaust alternatives before resorting to UUIDs.  Another
> > option is just to punt, make user exposed ID generation pluggable, and
> > provide a default implementation (or two).  This would allow consumers to
> > use their own ID formats, which might be an integration requirement.
> >
> > --DeWayne
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 4:25 AM, Vaishnavi K.R <
> [email protected]
> > >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes. You are correct. IDs remain unique across the table.
> > >
> > > Usually the IDs in the database are used for the internal operations.
> > >
> > > In general, they need not be exposed to the user. It is more used by
> the
> > > application itself.
> > >
> > >
> > > That's why it would be better to have an UUID which is specially meant
> to
> > > be used by the user. And also in the large scale environments, where
> huge
> > > number of service templates and instances pour in, they could have
> > uniform
> > > identification IDs rather than incremental numbers.
> > >
> > >
> > > And about allowing duplicate names for the service templates and
> service
> > > instances, it is MUST to have it. In multi user and multi tenant
> > > applications, the probability of getting the duplicate names is high.
> So
> > > its better to handle it in the initial phase itself.
> > >
> > >
> > > So I would like to know your suggestion and comment on the following
> > three
> > > items,
> > >
> > >
> > >   1.  Allowing duplicate names for the service templates and service
> > > instances
> > >   2.  Appending UUID to the node instances
> > >   3.  Identifying the service templates and the service instances by
> > UUIDs
> > > (not appended to their names, because that might confuse the user when
> a
> > > list of items are scrolled on)
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > /Vaish
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Ran Ziv <[email protected]>
> > > Sent: Monday, September 18, 2017 4:25:57 PM
> > > To: [email protected]
> > > Subject: Re: Unique identification of an instance element across
> services
> > >
> > > The service name is optional - it may be auto-generated according to
> the
> > > service-template name.
> > >
> > > The service-template name can also be made optional (see this jira
> issue:
> > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/ARIA-221 ).
> > >
> > >
> > > Regarding the scenario of non-CLI interaction - for any non-human
> usage,
> > > IDs should be used, as they're guaranteed to be unique. I don't see why
> > > UUIDs are necessary in this case.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 9:22 AM, Vaishnavi K.R <
> > [email protected]
> > > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi All,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > In addition to the node instance name, I am concerned about the
> service
> > > > template name and the service instance names. In a wider perspective,
> > > there
> > > > is high chance for these names to be the same.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > And as I have already mentioned in previous discussion, its an
> overhead
> > > > for an user to change the name again and again when he encounters the
> > > > 'already exist' error.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > And also when ARIA is used as a TOSCA Orchestration service provider,
> > > > manual interaction via CLI won't happen. All operations could be
> > > performed
> > > > over the HTTP calls. In such scenerio, it would be great and very
> much
> > > > useful, if elements are queried or identified using the UUID.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > So I see the uniqueness should prevail across the elements like
> service
> > > > templates, service instances and node instances.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > /Vaish
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: Ran Ziv <[email protected]>
> > > > Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2017 12:12:22 AM
> > > > To: [email protected]
> > > > Subject: Re: Unique identification of an instance element across
> > services
> > > >
> > > > I can't seem to be able to access our JIRA at the moment, but
> generally
> > > > speaking, the CLI currently supports "static completion" only, i.e.
> it
> > > > auto-completes CLI commands but not object names.
> > > > We tried implementing dynamic completion (e.g. tab on "-s" would
> > > > auto-complete service names from the storage), but we ran into some
> > > issues
> > > > with the underlying Click framework.
> > > > I'm not sure if an issue for trying to implement this further is
> > > currently
> > > > open on our JIRA.
> > > >
> > > > Regarding a "partial hash" concept, I don't really find this to be
> > useful
> > > > in this case. IMO, as Tal's mentioned, the cases when you need to
> > > actually
> > > > use these auto-generated long names are rare, and when that happens,
> > > > dynamic completion can take care of it well, if we can get it done.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 9:04 PM, Thomas Nadeau <
> > [email protected]>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Sep 15, 2017, at 1:53 PM, Tal Liron <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > When do you actually have to ender node names? Probably only in
> > "aria
> > > > > nodes
> > > > > > show". And in those cases you would be copy-pasting from a list.
> We
> > > > could
> > > > > > also improve our CLI completion code to properly complete node
> IDs.
> > > > >
> > > > >         That sounds like a very useful enhancement.  Do we have a
> > Jira
> > > > for
> > > > > this yet? *)
> > > > >
> > > > > > I think the serial numbers are more confusing than helpful. Let's
> > say
> > > > you
> > > > > > currently have 20 difference services running, and they are of
> > > various
> > > > > > different service templates. But let's say a few service
> templates
> > > have
> > > > > > node templates with the same name, "database". You could
> > potentially
> > > > > > "database_1" in the list and "database_2", but each one of these
> > > nodes
> > > > > > would be of a different node template of a different service
> > > template.
> > > > > The
> > > > > > serial number gives the false sense that these two nodes are
> > somehow
> > > > > > together. Anyway, we discussed this in much detail already: we
> all
> > > > agree
> > > > > > that the serial system is totally broken if you're using more
> than
> > > ARIA
> > > > > > install, or even if a few different ARIA users are using the same
> > > cloud
> > > > > > accounts (each ARIA install could create its own "database_1" --
> > what
> > > > if
> > > > > > you have two hosts with that same DNS name?).
> > > > >
> > > > >         I was just going to say the point you made above about DNS
> > name
> > > > > overlap.
> > > > > It sounds like we need to sit down and re-visit the serial number
> > > > > management?
> > > > >
> > > > >         —Tom
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 12:35 PM, DeWayne Filppi <
> > > [email protected]>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> I get the feeling that you are more gifted typist than most.  Or
> > are
> > > > you
> > > > > >> saying nobody will ever be required to type in one those IDs?
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 9:27 AM, Tal Liron <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>> Before we allow users to configure this, we have another JIRA
> to
> > > > > resolve:
> > > > > >>> actually, we don't have a mechanism for storing configuration
> > yet!
> > > > Here
> > > > > >> is
> > > > > >>> the open JIRA:
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/ARIA-229
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> As for what to configure in this case, our practice until now
> was
> > > > that
> > > > > >> the
> > > > > >>> UUID would be added as an underscored postfix of the object's
> > name.
> > > > So
> > > > > if
> > > > > >>> you have a node template named "database" then node instances
> > could
> > > > be,
> > > > > >>> assuming longest form of UUID (alphanumeric, 36 characters):
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> database_2d79fd86-0877-49ca-81d8-cd2dc9f7b0e2
> > > > > >>> database_2819972e-3b07-4923-be94-43e95985155f
> > > > > >>> database_45b9faf5-8bf4-482a-a570-d1c058270424
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> This guarantees names that are universally unique and yet still
> > > > > >> meaningful:
> > > > > >>> you would be able to tell at a glance what kind of node this
> is:
> > a
> > > > > >>> database. Note that we also have a mechanism in place to warn
> you
> > > if
> > > > > the
> > > > > >>> final name is more than 63 characters, because such names can't
> > be
> > > > used
> > > > > >> as
> > > > > >>> DNS hostnames (a common usage for node names in the cloud).
> This
> > > > should
> > > > > >>> also be configurable.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> I don't see why this needs to be abstracted from the user. If
> you
> > > are
> > > > > >> using
> > > > > >>> the CLI and see the list of nodes, you can refer to the node
> you
> > > are
> > > > > >>> examining with the full name as seen above. I think having a
> > > separate
> > > > > UI
> > > > > >>> name such as "database_1", "database_2', etc., would be
> > confusing.
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> So, assuming the above, I imagine these kinds of configuration
> > > vars:
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> instance.id_type = 'uuid' | 'alphanumeric' | 'base57'
> (default?)
> > |
> > > > > >> 'serial'
> > > > > >>> node.id_max_length = 63
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> Here are examples of the other types. Alphanumeric (25
> > characters):
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> database_t5evps77wp5biqdb1oyw36956
> > > > > >>> database_uw5oa530kn9mu73lzjuech02a
> > > > > >>> database_nzv3a7umph0g1093abwq6qjd3
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> And base57 (22 characters):
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> database_g8KV4qpKep2J2uA473fv6X
> > > > > >>> database_M2bLkYsToZ52L3HSy7CCmC
> > > > > >>> database_q8se9o5fDDWvT53tnnRiXN
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> My personal preference for the default has always been base57.
> It
> > > is
> > > > > both
> > > > > >>> the most compact, meaning less of a chance you would hit the 63
> > > > > character
> > > > > >>> limit, and also cleverly designed for human readability (no
> > > > > >>> visually-ambiguous glyphs).
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>> On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 2:34 AM, Vaishnavi K.R <
> > > > > >> [email protected]
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>> Hi,
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> Thanks for the update.
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> With current ARIA, the utility module to generate the UUID is
> > > > > >> available.
> > > > > >>>> But the UUID support will also mandate the following changes
> if
> > my
> > > > > >>>> understanding is right,
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>  1.  the inclusion of the UUID column in the mapper classes of
> > > > > >>> sqlalchemy
> > > > > >>>>  2.  the model object created should set the value for the
> UUID
> > > and
> > > > > >> send
> > > > > >>>> it to database
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> For an use case in our product, we badly need this UUID based
> > > > element
> > > > > >>>> identification. So I look forward to your comments on the
> > > following,
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>  1.  We contribute the UUID support to ARIA without affecting
> > the
> > > > > >>> current
> > > > > >>>> CLI module i.e. CLI will continue to use the name option. The
> > UUID
> > > > > will
> > > > > >>> be
> > > > > >>>> completely abstracted from the user.
> > > > > >>>>  2.  Configurable option to use UUID or name based
> > identification.
> > > > By
> > > > > >>>> default, it will work with the name based identification
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> Also I need clarification on the UUID generation. Currently
> ARIA
> > > > > >> supports
> > > > > >>>> four variants. Do we have any standard on how this UUID should
> > be
> > > > and
> > > > > >>> also
> > > > > >>>> on what aspect these four variants are concluded on?
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> Thanks,
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> /Vaish
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> ________________________________
> > > > > >>>> From: Tal Liron <[email protected]>
> > > > > >>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 5, 2017 8:24:41 PM
> > > > > >>>> To: [email protected]
> > > > > >>>> Subject: Re: Unique identification of an instance element
> across
> > > > > >> services
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> We already have utility code to generate all kinds of UUIDs,
> so
> > > it's
> > > > > >>>> trivial to make the change. I guess it's just a matter of
> > making a
> > > > > >>>> decision...
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 3:57 AM, Vaishnavi K.R <
> > > > > >>> [email protected]>
> > > > > >>>> wrote:
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> Hi,
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> I agree that with the CLI based usage in ARIA, the
> requirement
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > >>>> UUID
> > > > > >>>>> based identification of the node and service instance
> elements
> > is
> > > > an
> > > > > >>>>> overhead.
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> From the discussions so far, it seems like UUID is important
> in
> > > > > >>> handling
> > > > > >>>>> the multi-user and multi-tenant scenarios.
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> Do you have any update on when UUID will be considered in the
> > > > > >> roadmap?
> > > > > >>>>> If its not too far, we would like to make our contribution to
> > > ARIA
> > > > on
> > > > > >>>> UUID.
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> Looking forward to your response.
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> Thanks,
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> /Vaish
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> ________________________________
> > > > > >>>>> From: Avia Efrat <[email protected]>
> > > > > >>>>> Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2017 10:35:45 PM
> > > > > >>>>> To: [email protected]
> > > > > >>>>> Subject: Re: Unique identification of an instance element
> > across
> > > > > >>> services
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> First, good arguments from both 'sides'.
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> I am for at least adding a uuid as an option, as ARIA is
> > intended
> > > > to
> > > > > >> be
> > > > > >>>>> used at scale as well.
> > > > > >>>>> But currently, I am for the simple ids to be used as default
> > (and
> > > > not
> > > > > >>>>> uuids). Like it or not, right now ARIA is more at a 'TOSCA
> > > > > >> playground'
> > > > > >>>>> stage, and I think that's perfectly fine =)
> > > > > >>>>> And at this stage, I think simple ids will be better, as they
> > > > easier
> > > > > >> to
> > > > > >>>> use
> > > > > >>>>> via the CLI, but more importantly, don't clog the logs with
> > long
> > > > > >>>>> meaningless strings. As ARIA matures, we could switch the
> > default
> > > > to
> > > > > >>>> UUIDs.
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> And BTW, as our log format is configurable, there could be
> > other
> > > > ways
> > > > > >>>> than
> > > > > >>>>> UUIDs to distinguish between nodes with the 'same id' in a
> > > central
> > > > > >>>> logging
> > > > > >>>>> system, e.g using the user name as another indicator.
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 10:20 AM, Vaishnavi K.R <
> > > > > >>>>> [email protected]>
> > > > > >>>>> wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> Hi,
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> Thanks for the active discussion.
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> Having UUID at the node instance level will just make the
> > nodes
> > > > > >>> unique.
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> And these names will not be used by the user directly as no
> > > > > >>> operations
> > > > > >>>>> are
> > > > > >>>>>> happening on the node instance name.
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> But at the service template and the service level, UUID will
> > be
> > > of
> > > > > >>>> great
> > > > > >>>>>> help considering the multi user and multi tenancy
> situations.
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> So in a large scale perspective, the node names and the
> > service
> > > > > >>>> template
> > > > > >>>>>> names have high probability of being same.
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> When these enter into the automated world, it will create
> more
> > > > > >>> problem
> > > > > >>>>>> when name conflicts occur and its adds overhead to make
> > changes
> > > > > >> every
> > > > > >>>>> time
> > > > > >>>>>> to overcome the conflict.
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> UUID at service template and the service level: will be of
> > much
> > > > use
> > > > > >>> in
> > > > > >>>>> the
> > > > > >>>>>> above scenario and operations by user on these are less
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> UUID at node instance level: makes the node much unique and
> no
> > > > > >>>> operation
> > > > > >>>>>> happens on it
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> Thanks,
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> /Vaish
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> ________________________________
> > > > > >>>>>> From: Tal Liron <[email protected]>
> > > > > >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2017 8:48:40 PM
> > > > > >>>>>> To: [email protected]
> > > > > >>>>>> Subject: Re: Unique identification of an instance element
> > across
> > > > > >>>> services
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> I just don't see users having to deal much with node IDs
> > outside
> > > > of
> > > > > >>>>> simple
> > > > > >>>>>> hello-world style tutorials, and I'd hate for the first
> > > > impressions
> > > > > >>>> that
> > > > > >>>>>> users get out of ARIA is that it's just a playground for
> > TOSCA.
> > > It
> > > > > >>>> should
> > > > > >>>>>> be ready out-of-the-box for the real world.
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 9:13 AM, DeWayne Filppi <
> > > > > >> [email protected]
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>>> wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>> Such is their strength.  I'm just advocating using them as
> a
> > > last
> > > > > >>>>> resort
> > > > > >>>>>>> because they are user unfriendly and gigantic.
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 12:55 PM, Tal Liron <
> [email protected]
> > >
> > > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>> Let's consider a mass deployment: thousands of service
> > > > > >> instances
> > > > > >>> of
> > > > > >>>>> the
> > > > > >>>>>>>> same service template, created by many different users
> with
> > > > > >> their
> > > > > >>>> own
> > > > > >>>>>>> ARIA
> > > > > >>>>>>>> installations (and databases). In that case, assuming we
> use
> > > > > >>>>> sequential
> > > > > >>>>>>>> IDs, you would have the same node ID appear many times.
> You
> > > > > >> would
> > > > > >>>>> have
> > > > > >>>>>> to
> > > > > >>>>>>>> identify it via the particular user and service instance.
> If
> > > > > >>> you're
> > > > > >>>>>>>> centralizing logs, this can quickly be cumbersome. A UUID
> > will
> > > > > >>>>> identify
> > > > > >>>>>>> it
> > > > > >>>>>>>> globally and avoid any confusion.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>> I think the default should be something that avoids such
> > > > > >>> problems.
> > > > > >>>>> For
> > > > > >>>>>>>> users who insist on shorter IDs, we can allow them to
> > > configure
> > > > > >>> it.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 2:42 PM, DeWayne Filppi <
> > > > > >>>> [email protected]
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>> wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> True uuids are seductive, because of their simplicity.
> But
> > > > > >>> they
> > > > > >>>>> are
> > > > > >>>>>>>> huge,
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> overkill, and meaningless.  Imho a structured id is
> > superior
> > > > > >> if
> > > > > >>>> it
> > > > > >>>>>> can
> > > > > >>>>>>> be
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> made to work without a global locking scheme.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> - DeWayne
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> On Jul 25, 2017 12:11 PM, "Tal Liron" <[email protected]>
> > > > > >> wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> It's not an issue of thread safety -- it could be
> entirely
> > > > > >>>>>> different
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> processes, on different machines, accessing the same db.
> > It
> > > > > >>> can
> > > > > >>>>> be
> > > > > >>>>>>>> solved
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> via a SQL transaction, but I feel the whole issue can be
> > > > > >>>> avoided
> > > > > >>>>> by
> > > > > >>>>>>>> using
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> UUIDs.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Using the CLI to access specific nodes is not something
> I
> > > > > >> see
> > > > > >>>>>>>> happening a
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> lot outside of debugging. And when you do debug, you'll
> > > > > >>>> probably
> > > > > >>>>> be
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> copying
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> and pasting a node ID from the logs, so shorter names do
> > > > > >> not
> > > > > >>>> add
> > > > > >>>>>> much
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> ease
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> of use.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Again, I would be personally happiest if this was
> > > > > >>> configurable
> > > > > >>>>> (and
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> personally think UUIDs should be the reasonable
> default).
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 2:01 PM, Maxim Orlov <
> > > > > >>>> [email protected]>
> > > > > >>>>>>>> wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Technically we have no issue with implementing this via
> > > > > >>> uuid
> > > > > >>>>> or a
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> threadsafe solution for the current index
> implementation.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Getting node data via the cli feels more intuitive
> using
> > > > > >>> the
> > > > > >>>>>> index
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> based
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> ID, rather than the uuid based ID in my opionion.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 25, 2017 9:49 PM, "Tal Liron" <[email protected]>
> > > > > >>>> wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Our code for determining the next index is not
> > > > > >> concurrently
> > > > > >>>>> safe
> > > > > >>>>>>> (no
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> atomic
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> transaction) so I can see it breaking in concurrent use
> > > > > >>> cases
> > > > > >>>>>>>> (running
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> two
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> ARIA commands at the same time).
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> What is to gain here in terms of human readability? In
> my
> > > > > >>>>> opinion
> > > > > >>>>>>> it
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> adds
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> confusion because it gives a false sense of
> > > > > >> predictability.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> In my opinion the best compromise is to use
> > > > > >> base57-encoded
> > > > > >>>>> UUIDs.
> > > > > >>>>>>>> These
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> are
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> true UUIDs, but use a mix of upper and lowercase
> > > > > >>>> alphanumerics
> > > > > >>>>>>>> ensuring
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> no
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> visually ambiguous characters. We have the code for
> this
> > > > > >> in
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> utils/uuid.py.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> See also: https://github.com/wyattisimo/base57-ruby
> > > > > >>>>> [https://avatars1.githubusercontent.com/u/625546?v=3&s=400
> > > > ]<https://
> > > > > >>>>> github.com/wyattisimo/base57-ruby>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> GitHub - wyattisimo/base57-ruby: Base57 encoder for Ruby.<
> > > > > >>>>> https://github.com/wyattisimo/base57-ruby>
> > > > > >>>>> github.com
> > > > > >>>>> base57-ruby - Base57 encoder for Ruby. ... Clone with HTTPS
> Use
> > > Git
> > > > > >> or
> > > > > >>>>> checkout with SVN using the web URL.
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 1:28 PM, Maxim Orlov <
> > > > > >>>>> [email protected]>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Actually the refactoring was made so the id would be
> > > > > >> more
> > > > > >>>>> user
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> readable.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> The index is determined according to the used indices
> > > > > >>> (it's
> > > > > >>>>> not
> > > > > >>>>>>>> just
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> a
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> running number). If indeed this poses an issue (or if
> > > > > >>>> indeed
> > > > > >>>>> a
> > > > > >>>>>>> uuid
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> is
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> easier to recognize, or even use in a query), let's
> > > > > >>> discuss
> > > > > >>>>> it
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> further...
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 7:35 PM, Tal Liron <
> > > > > >>>> [email protected]>
> > > > > >>>>>>>> wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> We used to use UUIDs but at some point this was
> > > > > >>>>> refactored. I
> > > > > >>>>>>>> tend
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> to
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> agree
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> with you.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Actually, I would prefer it to be configurable. We
> > > > > >> have
> > > > > >>>>> code
> > > > > >>>>>> in
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> place
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> for
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> ID generation of various types: UUIDs, short UUIDs,
> > > > > >> and
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> sequentials.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> All
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> of
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> them would seem useful to me for various scenarios.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 3:42 AM, Vaishnavi K.R <
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> With my understanding in current ARIA, the node
> > > > > >>>> instances
> > > > > >>>>>> are
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> made
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> unique
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> by prefixing the node name with the 'id of the
> > > > > >>> service'
> > > > > >>>>>> (i.e.
> > > > > >>>>>>>> the
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> primary
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> key of the service table) as the instances are
> > > > > >>> specific
> > > > > >>>>> to
> > > > > >>>>>>> the
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> service.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> What will be the name of the node instances if the
> > > > > >>>>> default
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> instances
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> for
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the node template is '3' and how this will hold
> > > > > >> good
> > > > > >>>>> during
> > > > > >>>>>>>> scale
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> in
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> and
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> out?
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Could UUID be of great help in handling such cases
> > > > > >> by
> > > > > >>>>>>> including
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>> that
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> as a
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> column in the database tables of the service and
> > > > > >> the
> > > > > >>>>> node?
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> This will wipe out the naming confusions and
> > > > > >> querying
> > > > > >>>> can
> > > > > >>>>>> be
> > > > > >>>>>>>> made
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> easy
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with the UUIDs.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Looking forward to your suggestion.
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> /Vaish
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

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