Hmm, good point. It doesn’t have to. One question might be if we can push it to 
some maven repository, if it’s not an official release. 
But I think that should also be fine as long as we don’t push it to a 
repository that claims to contain official releases. 

Some mentor input might be helpful on this as well :)

Cheers,
Till

> On Jun 7, 2015, at 6:53 PM, Ildar Absalyamov <[email protected]> 
> wrote:
> 
> Does version bump always mean full-fledged Apache release? We need the former 
> just to resolve compile time dependencies.
> 
>> On Jun 7, 2015, at 18:49, Till Westmann <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>> In principle I agree with this, but creating a new release will be a little 
>> more involved that just running maven, when we do this at the ASF.
>> To publish a new release we will have to vet and vote on the release. This 
>> takes at least 72 hours  in the best case if we’re a TLP, the first release 
>> candidate is great, and have enough people to vote. While we’re still in the 
>> incubator, releasing will take a little longer as we also have to get enough 
>> votes for the release in the incubator.
>> As I proposed earlier, it would be really good to go through the full 
>> release process once, before we decide how to structure our processes and 
>> infrastructure.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Till
>> 
>>> On Jun 4, 2015, at 6:37 PM, Ildar Absalyamov <[email protected]> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I am with Chris on repository separation and I think that the solution to 
>>> the issue of Hyracks commits breaking Asterix build is using release 
>>> Hyracks versions instead of snapshot ones. Yes, that will create a frequent 
>>> Hyracks releases (we will have to release it each time there is a change 
>>> which spans both Hyracks & Asterix) and we have abandoned this practice a 
>>> while ago, but it seems that’s the only way to separate projects logically.
>>> 
>>> Here are few examples to clear the picture. In all examples Hyracks version 
>>> is 4.5.6-Snapshot, Asterix version is 1.2.3-Snapshot (but it depends on 
>>> previous release version Hyracks 4.5.5):
>>> 1) The changes span both Asterix & Hyracks.
>>> First make sure that Asterix could depend on Hyracks 4.5.6-Snapshot without 
>>> API conflicts & switch Asterix dependency to 4.5.6-Snapshot.
>>> Submit Gerrit review, once it is done as a part of git-asf script commit 
>>> changes, bump Hyracks version to 4.5.6, make Asterix depend on 4.5.6 and 
>>> bump Hyracks to 4.5.7-Snapshot right after.
>>> 2) The changes are located only in Hyracks. Regular review and commit (with 
>>> snapshot version) without any version bump.
>>> 3) The changes are located only in Asterix. Regular review and commit (with 
>>> snapshot version) without any version bump.
>>> 
>>> In this scenario Hyracks commit can never make Asterix build fail (since it 
>>> depends on a stable release) and it’s the responsibility of the first 
>>> person, whose commits spans both repos to make sure that the changes in 
>>> snapshot Hyracks version are properly merged.
>>> 
>>> Regarding the Yingyi’s issue with Gerrit topics: could we modify git-gerrit 
>>> script so it would submit both Asterix & Hyracks reviews (granted that the 
>>> latter is needed), and link them together, setting the proper topic? Gerrit 
>>> seems to have API for changing that, right?
>>> 
>>>> On Jun 4, 2015, at 15:45, Mike Carey <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Just a quick high-level note from our nearest equivalent of the 
>>>> pointy-haired Dilbert guy (aka me):  What would be nice is to have Hyracks 
>>>> changes kick off tests of all "supported client projects" - AsterixDB, 
>>>> VXQuery, maybe also Pregelix, IMRU, and possibly others in the future.  I 
>>>> don't think we'll ever prevent such downstream things from being broken 
>>>> unless we run their tests - so I would suggest that we need a mechanism to 
>>>> keep Hyracks changes from being permitted to happen without verifying the 
>>>> ongoing integrity of all "blessed" (priority 1) affected projects....  We 
>>>> could have an agreed upon list of such projects and tests for each....  It 
>>>> would be nice to have a "quick check" (hello world still works, basics are 
>>>> working) that was synchronously blocking of such changes, and at least a 
>>>> daily verification that all's totally well (AFAWK) for them all.
>>>> 
>>>> Not sure how this affects the still two-sided discussion...  :-)
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Mike
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 6/2/15 10:00 AM, Chris Hillery wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 9:46 PM, Yingyi Bu <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> In my opinion,  merging the repository doesn't break the separation of
>>>>>> hyracks and asterixdb, because the dependencies are controlled by mvn pom
>>>>>> files.
>>>>>> 
>>>>> That wasn't the separation I was talking about. I meant API separation. As
>>>>> it is now, when we make a change to both Asterix and Hyracks, we are 
>>>>> forced
>>>>> to consider the API implications, or at least they are put out there in a
>>>>> very clear way that we need to look at. If we merge them, people will
>>>>> (rightly) treat the whole thing as one product, and there will be no 
>>>>> brakes
>>>>> on making wide-ranging API changes.
>>>>> 
>>>>> (As an aside: I don't trust Maven's pom files to do a good job of keeping
>>>>> the dependency management clean. In fact I trust it to do precisely the
>>>>> opposite, by making it both easier to screw up the dependencies and harder
>>>>> to update them in future.)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Again, my point is this: If we truly believe that Hyracks is a re-usable
>>>>> component, it should be treated as such from source to build to delivery.
>>>>> By merging in Asterix, we are saying that Asterix is "more equal" than
>>>>> others Hyracks clients, to the point that we're tacitly willing to break
>>>>> those other clients in favor of simplifying Asterix development. If that 
>>>>> is
>>>>> a fair and true statement, well, then, sure, let's merge them.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 1) It forces those hyracks-only changes to pass asterixdb regression
>>>>>> tests.  Currently hyracks-only change are not verified by asterixdb 
>>>>>> tests.
>>>>>> 
>>>>> This is a good point, I will admit. However, I think this same goal can be
>>>>> met in other ways. My strong preference would be to create a set of true
>>>>> API tests inside of Hyracks, which both document and test the external
>>>>> Hyracks API. That will make API-breaking changes in future much easier to
>>>>> spot, and also make it clear when Asterix is using internal APIs that it
>>>>> should not.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 2) On my local machine,  I don't need to always install hyracks and then
>>>>>> verify asterixdb from time to time.  Especially, switching branches seems
>>>>>> painful because the installed hyracks snapshot is overwritten from time 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> time.
>>>>>> 
>>>>> I haven't tried working on multiple Hyracks branches at the same time, so 
>>>>> I
>>>>> haven't experienced this. This seems like a working method error, though.
>>>>> If you're working with two things that are "the same version" (even if
>>>>> that's a snapshot version), you'll need to use separate Maven repositories
>>>>> to install them. In fact, merging the two git repositories would do 
>>>>> nothing
>>>>> to fix this problem, will it? If the proposal is to put the two source
>>>>> repositories in the same git repo but otherwise leave them untouched, then
>>>>> nothing would change in the build process. It's possible I'm missing
>>>>> something there, though.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 3) I only need to make one code review request and one jenkins job.
>>>>>> Currently I need to manually change the topic of my asterixdb gerrit CL
>>>>>> every time before I update my hyracks CL, and then manually schedule
>>>>>> jenkins to run a new asterixdb job.  If I forget to schedule the jenkins
>>>>>> job, the asterixdb CL is still shown to be "verified by jenkins".
>>>>>> 
>>>>> This is a problem, but it's a problem in commit validation, not in the
>>>>> source. Modifying the source to work around these issues is still a bad
>>>>> idea IMHO.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The "change-topic" issue could be fixed with a bit of development work
>>>>> (have the topic point to a change, rather than a specific patchset on the
>>>>> change, so you only need to set it once, for instance).
>>>>> 
>>>>> As for manually scheduling Asterix Jenkins jobs, that sounds like it's 
>>>>> only
>>>>> a problem where your Hyracks change breaks an existing public API. That
>>>>> would be obviated by having true API testing inside of Hyracks, which is
>>>>> something that we should have regardless of any decisions about source
>>>>> locations.
>>>>> 
>>>>> In summary / repeating myself again: yes, we have some problems because
>>>>> Hyracks and Asterix are in seperate repositories. But those problems are
>>>>> pointing out true issues with our development and processes. Merging the
>>>>> repositories isn't fixing those problems, it's sweeping them under the 
>>>>> rug.
>>>>> Long term we would be much better off to identify, isolate, and fix the
>>>>> problems themselves.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ceej
>>>>> aka Chris Hillery
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> Best regards,
>>> Ildar
>>> 
>> 
> 
> Best regards,
> Ildar
> 

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