Thanks Kenn, this breakdown makes a lot of sense. We should probably
clarify this in the documentation of both of these annotations. Though now
that I look at the current docs, they seem clear enough, but perhaps they
can be phrased stronger.

To summarize:
- ValidatesRunner tests are for testing a runner. They should be created
mostly by core Beam SDK authors, when introducing a new Beam feature etc.
It may even make sense to make this annotation private to the beam sdk core
module.
- NeedsRunner tests are for testing a transform. That's what all external
users should be using, authors of IOs, etc. It's unspecified which runner
will be used, but in practice usually it'll be direct runner.
- The current situation (use of both of these annotations) does not quite
reflect that, and should be fixed.
- There might be a use case for testing a transform against all runners,
and we don't have an agreed-upon solution about how to do that:
ValidatesRunner technically accomplishes this, but it's logically wrong to
use it in this capacity.

Right?

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 12:50 PM Kenneth Knowles <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Without claiming that this is the final set of categories or that they are
> used correctly right now, here is what I think they mean:
>
>  - ValidatesRunner tests should be tests of the runner itself, generally
> that it implements a primitive correctly
>  - NeedsRunner tests should be tests of the PTransform/pipeline, assuming
> the runner is correct
>
> Notably, to the extent the assumption of runner correctness holds, this
> implies that it is OK to run NeedsRunner tests with just the direct runner.
>
> Pragmatically, in the Java SDK & IOs, this is not the current breakdown.
>
>  - In the Java SDK the NeedsRunner category is probably used more to flag
> "run this with just the direct runner" than to express the semantic intent.
> That isn't so bad; it is very close to the right usage.
>
>  - There are IOs that had RunnableOnService tests which are now
> ValidatesRunner tests. While the ability to run an IO does validate a
> runner, this is really an integration test of the IO. If they are to be run
> with just the direct runner they don't need any annotation, because the IO
> can take a test-scoped dependency on the direct runner. So it mostly makes
> sense to tag those tests for which it is profitable to run against all
> runners.
>
> I think the question of IO ITs with the intent to run across runners is
> currently under design discussion and I would defer to other people on the
> best way to do that. It could be a new category, or it could be a different
> design pattern entirely.
>
> Kenn
>
> On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 11:55 AM, Eugene Kirpichov <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Kenn - can you also remind for everybody, what is the difference between
> > @NeedsRunner and @ValidatesRunner, and when should one use one or the
> > other? I always find myself confused about this especially in code
> reviews.
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 11:32 AM Kenneth Knowles <[email protected]
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I just merged the rename from RunnableOnService to ValidatesRunner in
> the
> > > Java codebase (Python was already there)
> > > https://github.com/apache/beam/pull/2157.
> > >
> > > I'm sure there will be stragglers throughout our docs, etc, so please
> do
> > > help me catch them and fix them. And start learning to say
> > > "ValidatesRunner" in conversation :-)
> > >
> > > Kenn
> > >
> > > On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 1:01 PM, Lukasz Cwik <[email protected]
> >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > The default is a crashing runner which throws an exception if its
> > > executed.
> > > > This makes SDK core/examples/... not depend on any implemented
> runners.
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 12:37 PM, Robert Bradshaw <
> > > > [email protected]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > +1 to ValidatesRunner. I'd be nice if it were (optionally?)
> > > > > parameterized by which feature it validates.
> > > > >
> > > > > @NeedsRunner is odd, as using a runner is the most natural way to
> > > > > write many (most) tests, but an annotation should be used to mark
> the
> > > > > exception, not the norm. (I'd just assume a runner is available for
> > > > > all tests, e.g. CoreTests depends on DirectRunner depends on Core).
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 10:14 AM, Mark Liu
> > <[email protected]
> > > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > +1 ValidatesRunner
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 8:40 AM, Kenneth Knowles
> > > > <[email protected]
> > > > > >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> Nice. I like ValidatesRunner.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> On Nov 10, 2016 03:39, "Amit Sela" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> > How about @ValidatesRunner ?
> > > > > >> > Seems to complement @NeedsRunner as well.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 9:47 AM Aljoscha Krettek <
> > > > [email protected]
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> > wrote:
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > > +1
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > > What I would really like to see is automatic derivation of
> the
> > > > > >> capability
> > > > > >> > > matrix from an extended Runner Test Suite. (As outlined in
> > > Thomas'
> > > > > >> doc).
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > > On Wed, 9 Nov 2016 at 21:42 Kenneth Knowles
> > > > <[email protected]
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> > > wrote:
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > > > Huge +1 to this.
> > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > >> > > > The two categories I care most about are:
> > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > >> > > > 1. Tests that need a runner, but are testing the other
> > "thing
> > > > > under
> > > > > >> > > test";
> > > > > >> > > > today this is NeedsRunner.
> > > > > >> > > > 2. Tests that are intended to test a runner; today this is
> > > > > >> > > > RunnableOnService.
> > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > >> > > > Actually the lines are not necessary clear between them,
> > but I
> > > > > think
> > > > > >> we
> > > > > >> > > can
> > > > > >> > > > make good choices, like we already do.
> > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > >> > > > The idea of two categories with a common superclass
> actually
> > > > has a
> > > > > >> > > pitfall:
> > > > > >> > > > what if a test is put in the superclass category, when it
> > does
> > > > not
> > > > > >> > have a
> > > > > >> > > > clear meaning? And also, I don't have any good ideas for
> > > names.
> > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > >> > > > So I think just replacing RunnableOnService with
> RunnerTest
> > to
> > > > > make
> > > > > >> > clear
> > > > > >> > > > that it is there just to test the runner is good. We might
> > > also
> > > > > want
> > > > > >> > > > RunnerIntegrationTest extends NeedsRunner to use in the IO
> > > > > modules.
> > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > >> > > > See also Thomas's doc on capability matrix testing* which
> is
> > > > > aimed at
> > > > > >> > > case
> > > > > >> > > > 2. Those tests should all have a category from the doc,
> or a
> > > new
> > > > > one
> > > > > >> > > added.
> > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > >> > > > *
> > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > >> > >
> > > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fICxq32t9yWn9qXhmT07xpclHeHX2
> > > > > >> > VlUyVtpi2WzzGM/edit
> > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > >> > > > Kenn
> > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > >> > > > On Wed, Nov 9, 2016 at 12:20 PM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré <
> > > > > >> [email protected]
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > Hi Mark,
> > > > > >> > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > Generally speaking, I agree.
> > > > > >> > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > As RunnableOnService extends NeedsRunner,
> @TestsWithRunner
> > > or
> > > > > >> > > > @RunOnRunner
> > > > > >> > > > > sound clearer.
> > > > > >> > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > Regards
> > > > > >> > > > > JB
> > > > > >> > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > > On 11/09/2016 09:00 PM, Mark Liu wrote:
> > > > > >> > > > >
> > > > > >> > > > >> Hi all,
> > > > > >> > > > >>
> > > > > >> > > > >> I'm working on building RunnableOnService in Python
> SDK.
> > > > After
> > > > > >> > having
> > > > > >> > > > >> discussions with folks, "RunnableOnService" looks like
> > not
> > > a
> > > > > very
> > > > > >> > > > >> intuitive
> > > > > >> > > > >> name for those unit tests that require runners and
> build
> > > > > >> lightweight
> > > > > >> > > > >> pipelines to test specific components. Especially, they
> > > don't
> > > > > have
> > > > > >> > to
> > > > > >> > > > run
> > > > > >> > > > >> on a service.
> > > > > >> > > > >>
> > > > > >> > > > >> So I want to raise this idea to the community and see
> if
> > > > anyone
> > > > > >> have
> > > > > >> > > > >> similar thoughts. Maybe we can come up with a name this
> > is
> > > > > tight
> > > > > >> to
> > > > > >> > > > >> runner.
> > > > > >> > > > >> Currently, I have two names in my head:
> > > > > >> > > > >>
> > > > > >> > > > >> - TestsWithRunners
> > > > > >> > > > >> - RunnerExecutable
> > > > > >> > > > >>
> > > > > >> > > > >> Any thoughts?
> > > > > >> > > > >>
> > > > > >> > > > >> Thanks,
> > > > > >> > > > >> Mark
> > > > > >> > > > >>
> > > > > >> > > > >>
> > > > > >> > > > > --
> > > > > >> > > > > Jean-Baptiste Onofré
> > > > > >> > > > > [email protected]
> > > > > >> > > > > http://blog.nanthrax.net
> > > > > >> > > > > Talend - http://www.talend.com
> > > > > >> > > > >
> > > > > >> > > >
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

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