Hello, 

I am using: brooklyn-dist-0.7.0-M1-dist.tar.gz

Will try to update to snapshot. I suppose I should use this one:
https://oss.sonatype.org/content/groups/public/io/brooklyn/brooklyn-dist/0.7.0-SNAPSHOT/brooklyn-dist-0.7.0-20141010.125853-187-dist.tar.gz
 

Compiling from sources might take some time on that VM. :) 

Thank you

_________________________________________
Elvinas Piliponis

Studentų  g. 59-B707, LT-51365, Kaunas | Lietuva
Email: [email protected] | Mobile: +370 69807947

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Downer [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: 2014 m. lapkričio 28 d. 19:50
> To: Brooklyn dev
> Subject: Re: Brooklyn fails to start Openstack instances due to
> specific network is not selected
> 
> Elvinas,
> 
> Could you confirm which version of Brooklyn you are using? I can see
> that message exists in the source code for Brooklyn 0.7.0-M1 but has
> been removed in the latest source code (0.7.0-SNAPSHOT) and the option
> enabled - I'll try to work out when it was removed.
> 
> Would you be OK to test with a SNAPSHOT build / latest source code? If
> not then 0.7.0-M2 will be released as soon as we can (there's a few
> Apache process hurdles that need to be cleared first).
> 
> Richard.
> 
> 
> On 28 November 2014 at 14:25, Elvinas Piliponis
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > So far this does not cause any issues as I am just investigating
> Brooklyn and no serious work is done.
> >
> > It seems I might have found the reason why network is not chosen:
> > 2014-11-28 14:13:14,418 DEBUG b.l.jclouds.JcloudsLocation [brooklyn-
> execmanager-yEoxwN6q-6]: opening inbound ports [22] for  cloud/type
> class
> org.jclouds.openstack.nova.v2_0.compute.options.NovaTemplateOptions
> > 2014-11-28 14:13:14,423 INFO  b.l.jclouds.JcloudsLocation [brooklyn-
> execmanager-yEoxwN6q-6]: ignoring networkName(0869c8a0-47ab-4eb1-a6eb-
> 0072172cd880) in VM creation because not supported for cloud/type
> ({loginUser=root, loginPrivateKeyPresent=true,
> autoAssignFloatingIp=false, securityGroupNames=[default],
> keyPairName=brooklyn, configDrive=false})
> >
> > Why suddenly cloud type for networkName changed to configuration
> items? This does not look right.
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________
> > Elvinas Piliponis
> >
> > Studentų  g. 59-B707, LT-51365, Kaunas | Lietuva
> > Email: [email protected] | Mobile: +370 69807947
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Richard Downer [mailto:[email protected]]
> >> Sent: 2014 m. lapkričio 28 d. 12:17
> >> To: Brooklyn dev
> >> Subject: Re: Brooklyn fails to start Openstack instances due to
> >> specific network is not selected
> >>
> >> Elvinas,
> >>
> >> Sorry that you are still having problems. There's lots of
> information
> >> recorded in the brooklyn.debug.log file which is located in the same
> >> directory that you start Brooklyn from.
> >>
> >> Please could you stop Brooklyn, delete this file, start Brooklyn,
> >> attempt the deployment, then stop Brooklyn. Then save a copy of the
> >> debug.log file.
> >>
> >> Please note that as this contains a wire log from jclouds it may
> >> contain passwords or other sensitive information - please
> >> search-and-replace the most obvious details!! You can then compress
> it
> >> and private-email it to me at [email protected] and I will take a
> >> look.
> >>
> >> Richard.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 28 November 2014 at 08:29, Elvinas Piliponis
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> > Hello,
> >> >
> >> > Unfortunately it still does not work. I have tried to add network
> ID
> >> to Brooklyn.properties and to provisioning YAML file. As soon as I
> make
> >> external network shared and it was listed I got an error "Unable to
> >> make an interface on external network NET_ID". I have also tried to
> >> hide external network and create another private network in user
> >> tenant. This time I have received "Multiple possible networks found,
> >> use a Network ID to be more specific."
> >> >
> >> > If I leave only one network for tenant, then it works as expected.
> >> >
> >> > How should I capture what jclouds sends? ASCII tcpdump or are
> there
> >> more refined methods?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > My Brooklyn.properties (have tried both way with RegionOne and
> >> without):
> >> >
> >> > brooklyn.location.named.openstack=jclouds:openstack-
> >> nova:http://10.12.208.5:5000/v2.0
> >> > brooklyn.location.named.openstack.identity=brooklyn:brooklyn
> >> > brooklyn.location.named.openstack.credential=brooklyn
> >> > brooklyn.location.named.openstack.imageId=RegionOne/d5163d69-4b2c-
> >> 4269-99ad-88506973037f
> >> > brooklyn.location.named.openstack.keyPair=brooklyn
> >> > brooklyn.location.named.openstack.securityGroups=default
> >> >
> >>
> brooklyn.location.named.openstack.loginUser.privateKeyFile=/opt/brookly
> >> n/brooklyn.pem
> >> > brooklyn.location.named.openstack.loginUser=fedora
> >> > brooklyn.location.named.openstack.hardwareId=RegionOne/24b24f68-
> 535a-
> >> 4c73-a052-52022240a2e3
> >> > brooklyn.location.named.openstack.destroyOnFailure=false
> >> > brooklyn.location.named.openstack.networkName=RegionOne/0869c8a0-
> >> 47ab-4eb1-a6eb-0072172cd880
> >> >
> >> > YAML:
> >> > name: xStream install
> >> > location: openstack
> >> >
> >> > services:
> >> > - type: brooklyn.entity.basic.VanillaSoftwareProcess
> >> >   name: SimpleRepo
> >> >   provisioning.properties:
> >> >     minRam: 512
> >> >     minCores: 1
> >> >     minDisk: 10
> >> >     autoAssignFloatingIp: true
> >> >     imageId: RegionOne/15df41d1-d5e1-4b1e-8427-1ffdd2eb011c
> >> >     hardwareId: RegionOne/24b24f68-535a-4c73-a052-52022240a2e3
> >> >     networkName: 0869c8a0-47ab-4eb1-a6eb-0072172cd880
> >> >     keyPair: brooklyn
> >> >     securityGroups: default
> >> >     privateKeyFile: /opt/brooklyn/brooklyn.pem
> >> >     loginUser: root
> >> >   launch.command: |
> >> >     curl -o ~/subscribe http://repo-
> server/repo/el/develop/subscribe
> >> >     chmod +x ~/subscribe
> >> >     sudo ~/subscribe
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _________________________________________
> >> > Elvinas Piliponis
> >> >
> >> > Studentų  g. 59-B707, LT-51365, Kaunas | Lietuva
> >> > Email: [email protected] | Mobile: +370 69807947
> >> >
> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> From: Richard Downer [mailto:[email protected]]
> >> >> Sent: 2014 m. lapkričio 27 d. 19:57
> >> >> To: Brooklyn dev
> >> >> Subject: Re: Brooklyn fails to start Openstack instances due to
> >> >> specific network is not selected
> >> >>
> >> >> Elvinas,
> >> >>
> >> >> I have been able to reproduce the problem, and the suggestion I
> made
> >> >> earlier in this thread appears to have resolved the problem for
> me.
> >> >>
> >> >> Here is the location details in brooklyn.properties that I used:
> >> >>
> >> >> #### OPENSTACK
> >> >> brooklyn.location.named.openstack-
> >> nova.identity=richard@XXXXXX:rdowner
> >> >> brooklyn.location.named.openstack-nova.credential=XXXXXX
> >> >> brooklyn.location.named.openstack-nova=jclouds:openstack-
> >> >> nova:https://region-b.geo-1.identity.hpcloudsvc.com:35357/v2.0/
> >> >> brooklyn.location.named.openstack-nova.displayname=HP Helion US
> West
> >> >> (Region B Geo 1) v13.5
> >> >> brooklyn.location.named.openstack-nova.imageId=region-b.geo-
> >> 1/169d484a-
> >> >> dde2-44c8-8f15-daaa1ba69e94
> >> >> brooklyn.location.named.openstack-nova.user=ubuntu
> >> >> brooklyn.location.named.openstack-nova.networkName=dd79bc6b-284a-
> >> 4014-
> >> >> a3dd-93949ccdd7de
> >> >> brooklyn.location.named.openstack-nova.jclouds.openstack-
> nova.auto-
> >> >> generate-keypairs=true
> >> >> brooklyn.location.named.openstack-nova.jclouds.openstack-
> nova.auto-
> >> >> create-floating-ips=true
> >> >>
> >> >> This test was using HPCloud's public instance of OpenStack. In
> >> >> addition to the standard public network, I added a new private
> >> >> network, so it should be similar to your configuration. I did
> start
> >> to
> >> >> get the same error messages as you, but when I added the
> >> "networkName"
> >> >> property as you can see above, the blueprint was able to deploy
> >> >> successfully. Please could you try again, using the above
> properties
> >> >> file fragment as a base.
> >> >>
> >> >> If you're still having problems then we'll need to look at the
> debug
> >> >> logs to see what jclouds is sending over the wire.
> >> >>
> >> >> Richard.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On 27 November 2014 at 13:57, Richard Downer <[email protected]>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> > Elvinas,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Sorry for the wait, and sorry that you're still having
> problems. I
> >> >> > have managed to reproduce the problem you're seeing, so I'll
> >> >> > investigate some possible fixes and get back to you.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Regarding your second question - I know that some location
> >> properties
> >> >> > can be given in the YAML but I'm not sure what. I'll try and
> find
> >> an
> >> >> > answer for that too.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Richard.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On 24 November 2014 at 08:30, Elvinas Piliponis
> >> >> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> >> Hello again,
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Hiding second network (removing shared property) allowed to
> start
> >> >> instance. So it seems network ID is lost somewhere in Brooklyn
> and
> >> does
> >> >> not reach openstack.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> For the reference: What can be specified in application YAML
> >> file?
> >> >> Can I specify things like image, keyfile, login user, hardware ID
> in
> >> >> YAML or should I hardcode those in brooklyn.properties file?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Thank you
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> _________________________________________
> >> >> >> Elvinas Piliponis
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Studentų  g. 59-B707, LT-51365, Kaunas | Lietuva
> >> >> >> Email: [email protected] | Mobile: +370
> 69807947
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> >>> From: Elvinas Piliponis
> >> >> >>> Sent: 2014 m. lapkričio 24 d. 10:21
> >> >> >>> To: [email protected]
> >> >> >>> Subject: RE: Brooklyn fails to start Openstack instances due
> to
> >> >> >>> specific network is not selected
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Hello,
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Thanks for response. Unfortunately it did not help. I have
> >> tried:
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Specify network in brooklyn.preferences (reloaded and
> restarted
> >> >> >>> service):
> >> >> >>> As RegionOne/UUID or simply UUID
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> In YAML
> >> >> >>>     networks:
> >> >> >>>       - network: RegionOne/UUID
> >> >> >>> Or
> >> >> >>>     networks:
> >> >> >>>       - network: UUID
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> BTW error is different for different users:
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Admin user is getting:
> >> >> >>> ExecutionException on brooklyn-m8nh-simple-vm3-lv6m-vm-wlls-
> 918:
> >> >> >>> java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException:
> >> >> >>> org.jclouds.http.HttpResponseException: command: POST
> >> >> >>>
> >> http://10.12.208.5:8774/v2/7053442c99914d4f8a64c6bc51a96d25/servers
> >> >> >>> HTTP/1.1 failed with response: HTTP/1.1 400 null; content:
> >> >> >>> [{"badRequest": {"message": "Multiple possible networks
> found,
> >> use
> >> >> a
> >> >> >>> Network ID to be more specific.", "code": 400}}]
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Non admin user gets:
> >> >> >>> ExecutionException on brooklyn-leml-simple-vm3-m9qy-vm-y7sp-
> 810:
> >> >> >>> java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException:
> >> >> >>> org.jclouds.rest.AuthorizationException: {"forbidden":
> >> {"message":
> >> >> "It
> >> >> >>> is not allowed to create an interface on external network
> >> 83aa077e-
> >> >> >>> 0742-4aaa-8774-6ccdc3fd7800", "code": 403}}
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> If needed I can send full error messages and logs.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> I will try to hide public network (although in that case I am
> >> >> wondering
> >> >> >>> how would I connect to instance).
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Thank you
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> _________________________________________
> >> >> >>> Elvinas Piliponis
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Studentų  g. 59-B707, LT-51365, Kaunas | Lietuva
> >> >> >>> Email: [email protected] | Mobile: +370
> 69807947
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> > -----Original Message-----
> >> >> >>> > From: Richard Downer [mailto:[email protected]]
> >> >> >>> > Sent: 2014 m. lapkričio 21 d. 14:14
> >> >> >>> > To: Brooklyn dev
> >> >> >>> > Subject: Re: Brooklyn fails to start Openstack instances
> due
> >> to
> >> >> >>> > specific network is not selected
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >>> > Hi Elvinas,
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >>> > Thanks for your question. I've poked around in the source
> code
> >> >> for
> >> >> >>> > both Brooklyn and jclouds. The networkName property is
> being
> >> >> passed
> >> >> >>> > through to the jclouds "network" template option, and it
> seems
> >> >> that
> >> >> >>> jclouds'
> >> >> >>> > OpenStack Nova driver is interpreting this value as the
> >> network
> >> >> "UUID
> >> >> >>> > defined by Neutron".
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >>> > So I think that the solution is to change the "networkName"
> >> >> property
> >> >> >>> > in brooklyn.properties to refer to the network by its UUID
> >> rather
> >> >> >>> than
> >> >> >>> > by its name.
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >>> > I don't think any of my available OpenStack instances have
> >> >> multiple
> >> >> >>> > networks so I've not yet been able to test this theory, so
> >> >> perhaps
> >> >> >>> you
> >> >> >>> > could give it a try and let me know if it makes a
> difference?
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >>> > Richard.
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >>> > On 20 November 2014 15:00, Elvinas Piliponis
> >> >> >>> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> >>> > > Hello,
> >> >> >>> > >
> >> >> >>> > > Not sure if I have made something weird, however I am
> >> getting
> >> >> >>> errors
> >> >> >>> > which are explicitly related to selecting Network ID or
> errors
> >> >> >>> > indicates that.
> >> >> >>> > >
> >> >> >>> > > I am using the following YAML:
> >> >> >>> > >         name: simple-vm3
> >> >> >>> > >         location: openstack
> >> >> >>> > >         services:
> >> >> >>> > >         - type:
> brooklyn.entity.basic.EmptySoftwareProcess
> >> >> >>> > >           name: VM
> >> >> >>> > >           provisioning.properties:
> >> >> >>> > >             minRam: 512
> >> >> >>> > >             minCores: 1
> >> >> >>> > >             minDisk: 10
> >> >> >>> > >             networks:
> >> >> >>> > >               - network: private
> >> >> >>> > >
> >> >> >>> > > Brooklyn properties:
> >> >> >>> > > brooklyn.location.named.openstack=jclouds:openstack-
> >> >> >>> > nova:http://IP_ADD
> >> >> >>> > > R:5000/v2.0
> >> >> brooklyn.location.named.openstack.identity=admin:admin
> >> >> >>> > > brooklyn.location.named.openstack.credential=********
> >> >> >>> > >
> >> brooklyn.location.named.openstack.imageId=RegionOne/d5163d69-
> >> >> 4b2c-
> >> >> >>> > 4269
> >> >> >>> > > -99ad-88506973037f
> >> >> brooklyn.location.named.openstack.keyPair=admin
> >> >> >>> > > brooklyn.location.named.openstack.securityGroups=default
> >> >> >>> > >
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >>
> brooklyn.location.named.openstack.loginUser.privateKeyFile=/opt/brookl
> >> >> >>> > > yn/admin.pem
> >> brooklyn.location.named.openstack.loginUser=fedora
> >> >> >>> > >
> >> >> brooklyn.location.named.openstack.hardwareId=RegionOne/24b24f68-
> >> >> >>> 535a
> >> >> >>> > > -
> >> >> >>> > 4
> >> >> >>> > > c73-a052-52022240a2e3
> >> >> >>> > > brooklyn.location.named.openstack.networkName=private
> >> >> >>> > >
> >> >> >>> > >
> >> >> >>> > > I have attempted to add network definition to the example
> >> YAML
> >> >> from
> >> >> >>> > Brooklyn web page. It did not help.
> >> >> >>> > >
> >> >> >>> > > OpenStack is set up to have 2 networks: private and
> external
> >> >> >>> shared,
> >> >> >>> > from where Floating IP's are to be assigned. I am able to
> >> start
> >> >> >>> > instances with admin and non admin user on OpenStack and
> >> >> networking
> >> >> >>> > seems to be working.
> >> >> >>> > >
> >> >> >>> > >
> >> >> >>> > > When setting Brooklyn to use normal tenant user,
> application
> >> >> fails
> >> >> >>> > with:
> >> >> >>> > >
> >> >> >>> > > Failure running task invoking start[locations] on 1 node
> >> >> >>> (aBM5rC8q):
> >> >> >>> > > org.jclouds.compute.RunNodesException: error running 1
> node
> >> >> >>> > > group(brooklyn-wnok-simple-vm3-nkqw-vm-bsuf)
> >> >> location(RegionOne)
> >> >> >>> > > image(d5163d69-4b2c-4269-99ad-88506973037f)
> >> >> >>> > > size(24b24f68-535a-4c73-a052-52022240a2e3)
> >> >> >>> > > options({loginUser=fedora, loginPrivateKeyPresent=true,
> >> >> >>> > > scriptPresent=true,
> >> >> >>> > > userMetadata={Name=brooklyn-wnok-simple-vm3-nkqw-vm-bsuf-
> >> UcLq},
> >> >> >>> > > autoAssignFloatingIp=false, securityGroupNames=[default],
> >> >> >>> > > keyPairName=brooklyn, configDrive=false}) Execution
> >> failures:
> >> >> 1)
> >> >> >>> > > ExecutionException on brooklyn-wnok-simple-vm3-nkqw-vm-
> bsuf-
> >> >> 390:
> >> >> >>> > > java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException:
> >> >> >>> > > org.jclouds.rest.AuthorizationException: {"forbidden":
> >> >> {"message":
> >> >> >>> > "It
> >> >> >>> > > is not allowed to create an interface on external network
> >> >> >>> > > 83aa077e-0742-4aaa-8774-6ccdc3fd7800", "code": 403}}
> >> >> >>> > >
> >> >> >>> > > According to some knowledge bases this happens when
> explicit
> >> >> >>> network
> >> >> >>> > id is not specified in request and shared external network
> is
> >> >> >>> > attempted to be used. Request fails as _Member_ user is not
> >> >> allowed
> >> >> >>> to
> >> >> >>> > modify external net.
> >> >> >>> > >
> >> >> >>> > >
> >> >> >>> > > If I select to use admin user it fails a litle further
> and
> >> more
> >> >> >>> > explicitly.
> >> >> >>> > >
> >> >> >>> > > Failure running task invoking start[locations] on 1 node
> >> >> >>> (bGa2UU8o):
> >> >> >>> > > org.jclouds.compute.RunNodesException: error running 1
> node
> >> >> >>> > > group(brooklyn-gdqq-simple-vm2-eo7v-vm-sswy)
> >> >> location(RegionOne)
> >> >> >>> > > image(d5163d69-4b2c-4269-99ad-88506973037f)
> >> >> >>> > > size(24b24f68-535a-4c73-a052-52022240a2e3)
> >> >> >>> > > options({loginUser=fedora, loginPrivateKeyPresent=true,
> >> >> >>> > > scriptPresent=true,
> >> >> >>> > > userMetadata={Name=brooklyn-gdqq-simple-vm2-eo7v-vm-sswy-
> >> Q526},
> >> >> >>> > > autoAssignFloatingIp=false, securityGroupNames=[default],
> >> >> >>> > > keyPairName=admin, configDrive=false}) Execution
> failures:
> >> 1)
> >> >> >>> > > ExecutionException on brooklyn-gdqq-simple-vm2-eo7v-vm-
> sswy-
> >> >> 639:
> >> >> >>> > > java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException:
> >> >> >>> > > org.jclouds.http.HttpResponseException: command: POST
> >> >> >>> > >
> >> >>
> http://10.12.208.5:8774/v2/7053442c99914d4f8a64c6bc51a96d25/servers
> >> >> >>> > > HTTP/1.1 failed with response: HTTP/1.1 400 null;
> content:
> >> >> >>> > > [{"badRequest": {"message": "Multiple possible networks
> >> found,
> >> >> use
> >> >> >>> a
> >> >> >>> > > Network ID to be more specific.", "code": 400}}] at
> >> >> >>> > >
> >> >> >>> >
> >> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >>
> com.google.common.util.concurrent.AbstractFuture$Sync.getValue(Abstrac
> >> >> >>> > > tFuture.java:299) at
> >> >> >>> > >
> >> >> >>> > > Any ideas how to specify Network ID? Or am I doing
> >> everything
> >> >> wrong
> >> >> >>> > way?
> >> >> >>> > >
> >> >> >>> > > Thank you
> >> >> >>> > >
> >> >> >>> > > _________________________________________
> >> >> >>> > > Elvinas Piliponis
> >> >> >>> > >
> >> >> >>> > > Studentų  g. 59-B707, LT-51365, Kaunas | Lietuva
> >> >> >>> > > Email: [email protected] | Mobile: +370
> >> >> 69807947
> >> >> >>> > >
> >> >> >>> > > The information contained in this electronic mail
> >> transmission
> >> >> may
> >> >> >>> > > be
> >> >> >>> > privileged and confidential, and therefore, protected from
> >> >> >>> disclosure.
> >> >> >>> > If you have received this communication in error, please
> >> notify
> >> >> us
> >> >> >>> > immediately by replying to this message and deleting the
> email
> >> >> and
> >> >> >>> its
> >> >> >>> > attachments from all computers without copying or
> disclosing
> >> it.
> >> >> >>> The information contained in this electronic mail
> transmission
> >> may
> >> >> be
> >> >> >>> privileged and confidential, and therefore, protected from
> >> >> disclosure.
> >> >> >>> If you have received this communication in error, please
> notify
> >> us
> >> >> >>> immediately by replying to this message and deleting the
> email
> >> and
> >> >> its
> >> >> >>> attachments from all computers without copying or disclosing
> it.
> >> >> >> The information contained in this electronic mail transmission
> >> may
> >> >> be privileged and confidential, and therefore, protected from
> >> >> disclosure. If you have received this communication in error,
> please
> >> >> notify us immediately by replying to this message and deleting
> the
> >> >> email and its attachments from all computers without copying or
> >> >> disclosing it.
> >> > The information contained in this electronic mail transmission may
> be
> >> privileged and confidential, and therefore, protected from
> disclosure.
> >> If you have received this communication in error, please notify us
> >> immediately by replying to this message and deleting the email and
> its
> >> attachments from all computers without copying or disclosing it.
> > The information contained in this electronic mail transmission may be
> privileged and confidential, and therefore, protected from disclosure.
> If you have received this communication in error, please notify us
> immediately by replying to this message and deleting the email and its
> attachments from all computers without copying or disclosing it.
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