I would really like us to split out utilities into a common project, personally. It would be nice to work with a shared palette, including for dtest-api, accord, Harry etc.
I think it would help clean up the codebase a bit too, as we have some (minimal) tight coupling with utilities and the C* process.
But doubt we have the time for that anytime soon. On 25 May 2023, at 05:04, Caleb Rackliffe <calebrackli...@gmail.com> wrote:
Isn’t the other reason Accord works well as a submodule that it has no dependencies on C* proper? Harry does at the moment, right? (Not that we couldn’t address that…just trying to think this through…) On May 24, 2023, at 6:54 PM, Benedict <bened...@apache.org> wrote:
In this case Harry is a testing module - it’s not something we will develop in tandem with C* releases, and we will want improvements to be applied across all branches.
So it seems a natural fit for submodules to me. On 24 May 2023, at 21:09, Caleb Rackliffe <calebrackli...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Submodules do have their own overhead and edge cases, so I am mostly in favor of using for cases where the code must live outside of tree (such as jvm-dtest that lives out of tree as all branches need the same interfaces)
Agreed. Basically where I've ended up on this topic.
> We could go over some interesting examples such as testing 2i (SAI)
+100
We can pick that up as an example, sure.
On Wed, May 24, 2023, at 4:53 PM, Josh McKenzie wrote:
I have submitted a proposal to Cassandra Summit for a 4-hour Harry workshop,
Ideally we'd be able to get something together that's a high level "In the next 15 minutes, you will know and understand A-G and have access to N% of the power of harry" kind of offer.
Honestly, there's a lot in our ecosystem where we could benefit from taking a page from their book in terms of onboarding and getting started IMO.
On Wed, May 24, 2023, at 10:31 AM, Alex Petrov wrote:
> I wonder if a mini-onboarding session would be good as a community session - go over Harry, how to run it, how to add a test? Would that be the right venue? I just would like to see how we can not only plug it in to regular CI but get everyone that wants to add a test be able to know how to get started with it.
I have submitted a proposal to Cassandra Summit for a 4-hour Harry workshop, but unfortunately it got declined. Goes without saying, we can still do it online, time and resources permitting. But again, I do not think it should be barring us from making Harry a part of the codebase, as it already is. In fact, we can be iterating on the development quicker having it in-tree.
We could go over some interesting examples such as testing 2i (SAI), modelling Group By tests, or testing repair. If there is enough appetite and collaboration in the community, I will see if we can pull something like that together. Input on _what_ you would like to see / hear / tested is also appreciated. Harry was developed out of a strong need for large-scale testing, which also has informed many of its APIs, but we can make it easier to access for interactive testing / unit tests. We have been doing a lot of that with Transactional Metadata, too.
> I'll hold off on this until Alex Petrov chimes in. @Alex -> got any thoughts here?
Yes, sorry for not responding on this thread earlier. I can not understate how excited I am about this, and how important I think this is. Time constraints are somehow hard to overcome, but I hope the results brought by TCM will make it all worth it.
On Wed, May 24, 2023, at 4:23 PM, Alex Petrov wrote:
I think pulling Harry into the tree will make adoption easier for the folks. I have been a bit swamped with Transactional Metadata work, but I wanted to make some of the things we were using for testing TCM available outside of TCM branch. This includes a bunch of helper methods to perform operations on the clusters, data generation, and more useful stuff. Of course, the question always remains about how much time I want to spend porting it all to Gossip, but I think we can find a reasonable compromise.
I would not set this improvement as a prerequisite to pulling Harry into the main branch, but rather interpret it as a commitment from myself to take community input and make it more approachable by the day.
On Wed, May 24, 2023, at 2:44 PM, Josh McKenzie wrote:
importantly it’s a million times better than the dtest-api process - which stymies development due to the friction.
This is my major concern.
What prompted this thread was harry being external to the core codebase and the lack of adoption and usage of it having led to atrophy of certain aspects of it, which then led to redundant implementation of some fuzz testing and lost time.
We'd all be better served to have this closer to the main codebase as a forcing function to smooth out the rough edges, integrate it, and make it a collective artifact and first class citizen IMO.
I have similar opinions about the dtest-api.
On Wed, May 24, 2023, at 4:05 AM, Benedict wrote:
It’s not without hiccups, and I’m sure we have more to learn. But it mostly just works, and importantly it’s a million times better than the dtest-api process - which stymies development due to the friction.
WRT git submodules and CASSANDRA-18204, are we happy with how it is working for accord ?
The time spent on getting that running has been a fair few hours, where we could have cut many manual module releases in that time.
David and folks working on accord ?
I'll hold off on this until Alex Petrov chimes in. @Alex -> got any thoughts here?
On Tue, May 16, 2023, at 5:17 PM, Jeremy Hanna wrote:
I think it would be great to onboard Harry more officially into the project. However it would be nice to perhaps do some sanity checking outside of Apple folks to see how approachable it is. That is, can someone take it and just run it with the current readme without any additional context?
I wonder if a mini-onboarding session would be good as a community session - go over Harry, how to run it, how to add a test? Would that be the right venue? I just would like to see how we can not only plug it in to regular CI but get everyone that wants to add a test be able to know how to get started with it.
Jeremy
On May 16, 2023, at 1:34 PM, Abe Ratnofsky < a...@aber.io> wrote:
Just to make sure I'm understanding the details, this would mean apache/cassandra-harry maintains its status as a separate repository, apache/cassandra references it as a submodule, and clones and builds Harry locally, rather than pulling a released JAR. We can then reference Harry as a library without maintaining public artifacts for it. Is that in line with what you're thinking?
> I'd also like to see us get a Harry run integrated as part of our pre-commit CI
I'm a strong supporter of this, of course.
Given the value it's brought to the project's stabilization efforts and the movement of other things in the ecosystem to being more integrated (accord, build-scripts https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-18133), I think having the testing framework better localized and integrated would be a net benefit for adoption, awareness, maintenance, and tighter workflows as we troubleshoot future failures it surfaces.
I'd also like to see us get a Harry run integrated as part of our pre-commit CI (a 5 minute simple soak test for instance) and having that local in this fashion should make that a cleaner integration as well.
Thoughts?
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