My preference would be to simply update CEP-1 instead of starting a new one. It achieves the same end goal and we can create new CEPs for the scope that is deferred.
Dinesh On Mon, Oct 14, 2024 at 4:51 PM Patrick McFadin <pmcfa...@gmail.com> wrote: > I think that all sounds good. Let's get that new CEP started then. I think > there are opinions flying around based on last week's discussions that need > to coalesce. > > Patrick > > On Mon, Oct 14, 2024 at 3:19 PM Francisco Guerrero <fran...@apache.org> > wrote: > >> From my point of view CEP-1 is overly broad in terms it wants to achieve. >> My understanding is that CEPs have to have a well-defined scope. >> >> I agree with Joey that we should close CEP-1 with the features I have >> proposed earlier in this thread. And have any future Sidecar work >> captured in >> subsequent CEPs. >> >> Best, >> - Francisco >> >> On 2024/10/14 21:58:55 Joseph Lynch wrote: >> > Hi everyone! >> > >> > I am curious what Dinesh's perspective is but I think the specific >> > enumerated scope in CEP-1 isn't super critical to be honest. That CEP >> > successfully (imo) built consensus that the community wants a separate >> > management process, and that sidecar both exists today and has useful >> > functionality (which is great!). I agree with Jon and others in these >> > threads that the functionality isn't super accessible until some of the >> > tickets Francisco mentioned are worked on and a release is made. I also >> > agree with Francisco that getting to a release, even if it is an alpha, >> > should be the goal - let's get to a release. >> > >> > I am personally fine closing CEP-1 and saying "This CEP has been >> superseded >> > by subsequent CEPs - future work in the sidecar requiring community >> > consensus will have separate CEPs as needed". That doesn't mean that the >> > scope in CEP-1 isn't useful, and I hope some of the gaps are added in >> the >> > future, but I think we can release without them and the focus should be >> on >> > the gaps for release not the gaps in functionality with CEP-1. >> > >> > Also I should mention I am extremely excited to see all the great >> features >> > that have landed and that there is a place outside the main DB for those >> > kinds of innovations to be tried out that doesn't conflict with the main >> > process. In my mind, having that place was the purpose of CEP-1, which >> is >> > done - the specific enumerated features are less important in my >> opinion. >> > >> > -Joey >> > >> > On Mon, Oct 14, 2024 at 4:09 PM Patrick McFadin <pmcfa...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > >> > > What are we going to do with CEP-1? Cut and rescope in a new CEP or >> > > rewrite CEP-1? >> > > >> > > On Mon, Oct 14, 2024 at 11:18 AM Francisco Guerrero < >> fran...@apache.org> >> > > wrote: >> > > >> > >> Hi folks, >> > >> >> > >> It was great meeting some of you in person at Community over Code >> where >> > >> we had a chance to discuss the Cassandra Sidecar project. A lot of >> > >> you expressed interest in having a release of Sidecar to start using >> the >> > >> existing features in the project: >> > >> >> > >> - C* adapters for versions 4.0, 4.1, 5.0 and trunk >> > >> - Cassandra Analytics support >> > >> - Restoring SSTables from S3-compatible object storage >> > >> - Mutual TLS authentication >> > >> - Role base access control >> > >> - Cluster health checks >> > >> - Observability >> > >> - Sidecar Client >> > >> >> > >> Some of the call-outs in this thread of things we need for a release: >> > >> >> > >> - Documentation >> > >> - Bug fixes [1][2][3] >> > >> >> > >> These are other things mentioned in the thread, where we would like >> help >> > >> from the community: >> > >> >> > >> - vNode support [4] >> > >> - Backup support [5] >> > >> - Bulk APIs [6] >> > >> >> > >> Once we have documentation and the bug fixes mentioned above, I will >> > >> start a thread vote for a release of Cassandra Sidecar 0.1 alpha. >> > >> >> > >> We want the community to benefit from the features already present in >> > >> Sidecar. The more community engagement we have, the more feature-rich >> > >> will become. >> > >> >> > >> Additionally, we can leverage easy-cass-stress to have Cassandra >> Sidecar >> > >> included in your Cassandra clusters, so we can easily start trying >> it out. >> > >> >> > >> Please let me know your thoughts on this. >> > >> >> > >> Best, >> > >> - Francisco >> > >> >> > >> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRASC-120 >> > >> [2] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRASC-121 >> > >> [3] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRASC-122 >> > >> [4] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRASC-149 >> > >> [5] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRASC-148 >> > >> [6] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRASC-3 >> > >> >> > >> On 2024/10/03 12:05:14 Josh McKenzie wrote: >> > >> > I'm tentatively in favor of the idea of us cutting releases for >> all our >> > >> ecosystem dependencies as a blocker to cutting a major with Cassandra >> > >> proper. I say tentatively since we've had trouble getting majors >> across the >> > >> line for awhile so adding more dependencies to that feels risky, >> however I >> > >> think the improvement to user experience justifies it. >> > >> > >> > >> > Also - I suspect the effort required to get subprojects across the >> line >> > >> will be quite a bit less than the mainline DB. >> > >> > >> > >> > If this is something there's agreement / consensus on, I'd be >> happy to >> > >> take on the role of driving that coordination in the future. >> > >> > >> > >> > On Wed, Oct 2, 2024, at 3:16 PM, Jon Haddad wrote: >> > >> > > > Mostly Analytics, which should not be a blocker for Sidecar. >> > >> > > >> > >> > > Yes, agreed. I'm just trying to understand the context of the >> vnode >> > >> statement and how we're framing 1.0 sidecar. >> > >> > > >> > >> > > > We definitely need to support 5.0 for the Analytics release, >> but >> > >> that's orthogonal to Sidecar. >> > >> > > >> > >> > > It is, unless we're endorsing the analytics library as a primary >> > >> reason to use sidecar. Then it becomes a dependency people rely on, >> and I >> > >> don't want it blocking people from upgrading. >> > >> > > >> > >> > > > Yeah, definitely. I agree that we need to support the latest >> > >> released version of Cassandra in ecosystem projects. However, without >> > >> official releases there won't be adoption and without adoption there >> won't >> > >> be feedback from the community on what features / improvements are >> needed. >> > >> > > >> > >> > > I don't expect that our first release will be feature complete, >> but >> > >> it should be at least compelling. I'm still not aware of what >> > >> functionality exists that would meet that requirement. >> > >> > > >> > >> > > Think about this from the perspective of reading a blog post. >> We're >> > >> excited to announce sidecar 1.0! Here's what you can do: >> > >> > > >> > >> > > 1. Backup / restore? >> > >> > > 2. ? >> > >> > > 3. ? >> > >> > > >> > >> > > All I'm asking for are 3 reasons why people should care. If one >> of >> > >> them is backups, do we provide more flexible backup targets than S3, >> and if >> > >> we provide incremental / continuous backup options? Is there a >> scheduler >> > >> or do people need to roll their own? Is it coordinated, or is the >> intent >> > >> that people handle it on their own? >> > >> > > >> > >> > > I work with a lot of end users - this is the type of thing that >> > >> affects people and can either help or harm the project image. >> > >> > > >> > >> > > Jon >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > On Wed, Oct 2, 2024 at 2:40 PM Francisco Guerrero < >> fran...@apache.org> >> > >> wrote: >> > >> > >> > By vnode support, do you mean the analytics library? Or do >> other >> > >> features >> > >> > >> > in sidecar not work with vnodes? >> > >> > >> >> > >> > >> Mostly Analytics, which should not be a blocker for Sidecar. >> > >> However, I do >> > >> > >> feel there should be more testing around vnodes in Sidecar. >> > >> > >> >> > >> > >> > If we're talking about analytics, that gets a little >> complicated. >> > >> Are we >> > >> > >> > also then talking about 1.0'ing analytics? If so, I think we >> need >> > >> support >> > >> > >> > for 5.0 and BTI there. >> > >> > >> >> > >> > >> We need to release Analytics at some point as well, we should >> have a >> > >> similar >> > >> > >> discuss thread regarding Analytics. We definitely need to >> support >> > >> 5.0 for the >> > >> > >> Analytics release, but that's orthogonal to Sidecar. >> > >> > >> >> > >> > >> > Increasing the size of the ecosystem is challenging... >> > >> > >> >> > >> > >> Yeah, definitely. I agree that we need to support the latest >> > >> released version >> > >> > >> of Cassandra in ecosystem projects. However, without official >> > >> releases >> > >> > >> there won't be adoption and without adoption there won't be >> feedback >> > >> from >> > >> > >> the community on what features / improvements are needed. >> > >> > >> >> > >> > >> On 2024/10/02 18:05:42 Jon Haddad wrote: >> > >> > >> > By vnode support, do you mean the analytics library? Or do >> other >> > >> features >> > >> > >> > in sidecar not work with vnodes? >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > If we're talking about analytics, that gets a little >> complicated. >> > >> Are we >> > >> > >> > also then talking about 1.0'ing analytics? If so, I think we >> need >> > >> support >> > >> > >> > for 5.0 and BTI there. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > In my opinion, if something core to the project has official >> > >> releases, such >> > >> > >> > as drivers or operational tooling that people depend on, it >> should >> > >> also >> > >> > >> > support the latest version of Cassandra, on release. It >> doesn't >> > >> look good >> > >> > >> > if we release C* without usable drivers or tooling to operate >> it. >> > >> It is >> > >> > >> > massively deflating to announce we just released 5.0 >> (exciting!) >> > >> but you >> > >> > >> > can't use it for 6 months because you're using analytics lib >> and >> > >> the people >> > >> > >> > that contribute to it has better things to do with their >> time. I >> > >> think >> > >> > >> > part of the obligation of maintaining these projects needs to >> be >> > >> keeping up >> > >> > >> > with latest releases. If that can't be done, we should >> continue >> > >> to treat >> > >> > >> > it as a use-as-your-own-risk thing without official releases. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Increasing the size of the ecosystem is challenging... >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Jon >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On Wed, Oct 2, 2024 at 1:21 PM Francisco Guerrero < >> > >> fran...@apache.org> >> > >> > >> > wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Hi folks, >> > >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > Thanks for all the input. I'm trying to gather all the >> comments, >> > >> and from >> > >> > >> > > what I >> > >> > >> > > can gather it seems that most of the opinions are converging >> > >> towards >> > >> > >> > > scoping >> > >> > >> > > a Sidecar release. These are the items that were called out >> that >> > >> we will >> > >> > >> > > need >> > >> > >> > > for a release: >> > >> > >> > > - Documentation >> > >> > >> > > - Authorization / Authentication >> > >> > >> > > - vnode support >> > >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > There are some smaller bug fixes that need to be included >> that >> > >> we can label >> > >> > >> > > as part of the 1.0 release.[1][2][3] >> > >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > If there are any other tasks we need to completed, I >> encourage >> > >> the >> > >> > >> > > community >> > >> > >> > > to create JIRAs that can be in the release milestone for the >> > >> Sidecar. >> > >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > I agree with Stefan that OpenAPI is desirable. OpenAPI is >> > >> something I've >> > >> > >> > > been >> > >> > >> > > looking into as well. I'm also glad to see Abhijeet can help >> > >> with the >> > >> > >> > > documentation effort, I can also help on that front. >> > >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > Hopefully, I've captured your comments as truly as possible. >> > >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > Thanks again for all the feedback. >> > >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > Best, >> > >> > >> > > - Francisco >> > >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRASC-120 >> > >> > >> > > [2] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRASC-121 >> > >> > >> > > [3] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRASC-122 >> > >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > > On 2024/10/02 15:29:20 Jon Haddad wrote: >> > >> > >> > > > When I developed some of the original sidecar code, it was >> > >> based on REST >> > >> > >> > > > Easy, which would have allowed us to generate the spec >> > >> automatically. I >> > >> > >> > > > did this in a similar project. >> > >> > >> > > > >> > >> > >> > > > That was removed here: >> > >> > >> > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRASC-57 >> > >> > >> > > > >> > >> > >> > > > But unfortunately it looks like you can't generate the >> spec >> > >> from the >> > >> > >> > > code. >> > >> > >> > > > >> > >> > >> > > > Disappointing, that functionality was really useful. I >> wish >> > >> someone had >> > >> > >> > > > asked me before gutting it. >> > >> > >> > > > >> > >> > >> > > > Jon >> > >> > >> > > > >> > >> > >> > > > >> > >> > >> > > > >> > >> > >> > > > On Wed, Oct 2, 2024 at 11:16 AM Štefan Miklošovič < >> > >> > >> > > smikloso...@apache.org> >> > >> > >> > > > wrote: >> > >> > >> > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > Something like this: >> > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > >> https://instaclustr.github.io/instaclustr-icarus-go-client/ >> > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > On Wed, Oct 2, 2024 at 4:54 PM Štefan Miklošovič < >> > >> > >> > > smikloso...@apache.org> >> > >> > >> > > > > wrote: >> > >> > >> > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > >> While documenting endpoints please use something like >> > >> OpenAPI >> > >> > >> > > > >> specification. The sidecar should expose this document >> > >> itself so when >> > >> > >> > > I go >> > >> > >> > > > >> to this and that URL, I see all endpoints, I put the >> > >> payloads / >> > >> > >> > > parameters >> > >> > >> > > > >> for them and I can just directly call that, no messing >> with >> > >> curl / >> > >> > >> > > wget or >> > >> > >> > > > >> programmatically or whatever like that. The barrier to >> > >> exercise the >> > >> > >> > > basic >> > >> > >> > > > >> functionality has to virtually not be there. >> > >> > >> > > > >> >> > >> > >> > > > >> On Wed, Oct 2, 2024 at 4:13 PM Abhijeet Dubey < >> > >> > >> > > dubey.abhijee...@gmail.com> >> > >> > >> > > > >> wrote: >> > >> > >> > > > >> >> > >> > >> > > > >>> Hi folks, >> > >> > >> > > > >>> >> > >> > >> > > > >>> I have been using Sidecar recently and have found >> some of >> > >> its >> > >> > >> > > > >>> functionalities to be quite useful. Hari and I are >> also >> > >> working on >> > >> > >> > > CEP-40 >> > >> > >> > > > >>> which aims to introduce live migration features in >> Sidecar >> > >> in the >> > >> > >> > > > >>> near future. >> > >> > >> > > > >>> >> > >> > >> > > > >>> However, as others have mentioned, I agree that it >> > >> currently lacks >> > >> > >> > > > >>> proper documentation. >> > >> > >> > > > >>> >> > >> > >> > > > >>> Since this is an official Apache project, I believe >> that >> > >> creating >> > >> > >> > > > >>> comprehensive documentation would be beneficial. This >> > >> documentation >> > >> > >> > > should >> > >> > >> > > > >>> include an overview, architecture, a list and >> description >> > >> of various >> > >> > >> > > > >>> endpoints, and some examples or tutorials on how to >> use >> > >> Sidecar's >> > >> > >> > > features. >> > >> > >> > > > >>> >> > >> > >> > > > >>> This documentation would help people get started with >> > >> Sidecar and >> > >> > >> > > lower >> > >> > >> > > > >>> the entry barrier for many. We can update the >> documentation >> > >> > >> > > incrementally >> > >> > >> > > > >>> as needed, along with future enhancements and new >> > >> features. However, >> > >> > >> > > > >>> creating some form of formal documentation would be >> very >> > >> helpful. >> > >> > >> > > > >>> >> > >> > >> > > > >>> To this end I'm willing and highly interested in >> writing >> > >> some form of >> > >> > >> > > > >>> formal documentation for the Sidecar project. Please >> let >> > >> me know your >> > >> > >> > > > >>> thoughts/opinions on this proposal. >> > >> > >> > > > >>> >> > >> > >> > > > >>> >> > >> > >> > > > >>> >> > >> > >> > > > >>> On Wed, Oct 2, 2024 at 6:46 PM Štefan Miklošovič < >> > >> > >> > > smikloso...@apache.org> >> > >> > >> > > > >>> wrote: >> > >> > >> > > > >>> >> > >> > >> > > > >>>> Totally agree with Jon here basically on all fronts. >> > >> Apache >> > >> > >> > > Cassandra >> > >> > >> > > > >>>> Sidecar was always a hard nut to crack for me, that >> is >> > >> probably why >> > >> > >> > > I have >> > >> > >> > > > >>>> not been involved with that a lot even that is a >> great >> > >> tool to have >> > >> > >> > > and be >> > >> > >> > > > >>>> invested in as I was writing my own sidecar and I >> found a >> > >> lot of >> > >> > >> > > > >>>> similarities and problems Apache's sidecar tries to >> fix. >> > >> There was >> > >> > >> > > some >> > >> > >> > > > >>>> invisible barrier I have never managed to jump over. >> I >> > >> was looking >> > >> > >> > > around >> > >> > >> > > > >>>> and I am very sorry if I just have not found it yet >> but >> > >> there is >> > >> > >> > > not a list >> > >> > >> > > > >>>> of endpoints a sidecar has, is there? In readme and >> dev >> > >> docs there >> > >> > >> > > is just >> > >> > >> > > > >>>> nothing. Taking it at a face value I just don't know >> what >> > >> Sidecar is >> > >> > >> > > > >>>> capable of and how to use it. I see in the commit >> history >> > >> there is >> > >> > >> > > a bunch >> > >> > >> > > > >>>> of commits mentioning S3 but it is a total blackbox >> for >> > >> me as a >> > >> > >> > > potential >> > >> > >> > > > >>>> user. >> > >> > >> > > > >>>> >> > >> > >> > > > >>>> On Wed, Oct 2, 2024 at 2:52 PM Jon Haddad < >> > >> j...@rustyrazorblade.com> >> > >> > >> > > > >>>> wrote: >> > >> > >> > > > >>>> >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>> I don't think we should release sidecar 1.0 without >> any >> > >> docs. >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>> >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>> I took a look through the closed JIRAs to see what's >> > >> there. Here's >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>> what I found, please correct me if there's more: >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>> >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>> - Lots of stuff related to analytics. >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>> >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>> I would be pretty excited for this, but the >> analytics >> > >> library only >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>> works with single token clusters. Most folks don't >> run >> > >> Cassandra >> > >> > >> > > this >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>> way. I realize there's some element of everyone >> needs >> > >> to scratch >> > >> > >> > > their own >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>> itch, but I don't think we can really call this a >> useful >> > >> feature >> > >> > >> > > if the >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>> overwhelming majority of folks can't use it. I've >> > >> worked with a >> > >> > >> > > couple >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>> hundred teams over the years and can only think of >> 1 org >> > >> outside >> > >> > >> > > of Apple >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>> and Netflix that used 1 token, and It was a cluster >> that >> > >> predated >> > >> > >> > > v-nodes. >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>> >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>> The analytics repo says it's compatible with >> Cassandra >> > >> 4, but not >> > >> > >> > > 5. >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>> >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>> - Backup & Restore from S3 >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>> >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>> Is this compatible with other cloud providers or >> object >> > >> stores? It >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>> specifically lists S3 in JIRA. I haven't looked at >> the >> > >> source >> > >> > >> > > yet. Am I >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>> correct in reading it supports backing up >> snapshots, no >> > >> continuous >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>> backups? Seems like we should have at least feature >> > >> parity with >> > >> > >> > > Medusa if >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>> we're going to release something here. >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>> >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>> All the other closed JIRAs look related to these two >> > >> items. So the >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>> question is, are we releasing 1.0 as an limited S3 >> > >> backup and >> > >> > >> > > restore >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>> tool? One that prevents you from upgrading to >> Cassandra >> > >> 5 if you >> > >> > >> > > happen to >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>> use single token clusters? >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>> >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>> Who is the target audience? >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>> >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>> Jon >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>> >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>> >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>> >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>> On Wed, Oct 2, 2024 at 2:41 AM Dinesh Joshi < >> > >> djo...@apache.org> >> > >> > >> > > wrote: >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>> >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>>> Currently the Sidecar has a lot of functionality >> that is >> > >> > >> > > immediately >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>>> usable by the community. Apart from minor fixes, >> the >> > >> AuthN/Z >> > >> > >> > > story would be >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>>> wrapped up soon. Post this, I would propose moving >> > >> forward with >> > >> > >> > > cutting a >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>>> release with the existing feature set so we can get >> > >> this in the >> > >> > >> > > hands of >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>>> our community. >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>>> >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>>> On Tue, Oct 1, 2024 at 8:27 PM guo Maxwell < >> > >> cclive1...@gmail.com> >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>>> wrote: >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>>> >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>> Have the same question ： what ‘s the plan ？ >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>> >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>> Jeff Jirsa <jji...@gmail.com>于2024年10月2日 >> 周三上午10:43写道： >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>> >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2024, at 7:26 PM, Josh McKenzie < >> > >> jmcken...@apache.org >> > >> > >> > > > >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> wrote: >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> However it is used by a number of other features >> as a >> > >> dependency >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> such as analytics, backup/restore, repair, >> metrics, >> > >> and CDC >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> It seems like a natural pressure relief valve for >> > >> moving >> > >> > >> > > operations >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> out of a core C* node that are well served out of >> > >> process. >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> Yea, but the point of the foundation is to >> RELEASE >> > >> software for >> > >> > >> > > the >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> public good, and the link asserting consensus was >> > >> dec2018, so >> > >> > >> > > its’ 5.5 >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> years and no releases. >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> What’s the plan here? >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> > > > >>> >> > >> > >> > > > >>> -- >> > >> > >> > > > >>> *Abhijeet* >> > >> > >> > > > >>> >> > >> > >> > > > >> >> > >> > >> > > > >> > >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> > > >> > >> >
