I agree completely. That is why I use inside VM backup products currently. On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 11:07 AM, Will Stevens <wstev...@cloudops.com> wrote:
> I have not been following this thread entirely, but I would not count on > our snapshot mechanism for backups. If something like Veeam is used, then > an agent is in play and that agent will quiesce the running processes, such > as MySQL. This is important in order to do backup and DR as you will lose > transactions in memory and can potentially have a corrupted backup. > > Snapshots are not backups!!! > > *Will Stevens* > Chief Technology Officer > c 514.826.0190 > > <https://goo.gl/NYZ8KK> > > > On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 10:13 AM Rafael Weingärtner < > rafaelweingart...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Ok, now I start to understand. So, we will be handling snapshots and > they > > will be sent to a third-party system. > > > > Now let’s proceed. If I configure this “feature” with external=false. > What > > does it do? Nothing? I mean, what is the purpose of this “external” > > parameter? > > > > > > On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 4:09 PM, Nicolas Vazquez < > > nicolas.vazq...@shapeblue.com> wrote: > > > > > Its format may depend on the provider, but under the hood it is a > > snapshot > > > which can be full or incremental and it is copied and stored in a > backup > > > repository in one of the backup servers. For example, if you use Veeam, > > you > > > will find your backups stored as .vbk (for full backups) and .vib (for > > > incremental backups). It is the task of the backup provider to create > and > > > move these files to the backup repository. > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: Rafael Weingärtner <rafaelweingart...@gmail.com> > > > Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 10:39:35 AM > > > To: dev > > > Subject: Re: [PROPOSE] Backup and Recovery Framework > > > > > > Ok, there are a lot of things, which are kind of blurry to me. So, > let’s > > > try to go step by step. > > > > > > Let me ask again. What is a backup of the VM? You mention > restore-point. > > > What is it? Is it a snapshot in the hypervisor (complete/partial > > snapshot)? > > > If it is not a snapshot, what is it then? Are you installing some > agent > > in > > > the VM and then copying/mirroring the files in the VM’s file system? > > > > > > On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 3:26 PM, Nicolas Vazquez < > > > nicolas.vazq...@shapeblue.com> wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Daniel and Rafael, > > > > > > > > > > > > I have updated the diagram picture on the FS, please let me know if > the > > > > problem persists. > > > > > > > > > > > > @<mailto:daniel.herrm...@zv.fraunhofer.de>Daniel you are right about > > > > restoring VMs, please let me update the FS. Regarding your question, > we > > > > have considered the backups as a first class citizens, meaning that a > > > > backup would continue existing unless its originating VM has been > > > > removed/expunged. This way, listBackups API method would list them in > > > order > > > > to allow a user to restore a deleted VM from a backup. > > > > > > > > > > > > @Rafael the idea of the Dummy provider is simply returning the > expected > > > > entities from a backup provider. For example, the BackupManager could > > ask > > > > the BackupProvider to list its backups and would expect a list of > > > backups. > > > > As the Dummy Provider implements the BackupProvider interface, it has > > its > > > > own implementation of listBackups() method and simply returns some > mock > > > > entities to the Backup Manager. It does not store any backup, it > simply > > > > creates them in execution time and returns them. > > > > > > > > > > > > From the CloudStack point of view, Backups are stored externally, on > > the > > > > Backup and Recovery provider servers and are handled by them. We keep > > > track > > > > of the existing backups in the Backup provider. Implementation may > > depend > > > > on the Backup and Recovery provider, would consist on snapshots, but > > are > > > > handled by the provider and not by CloudStack. > > > > > > > > > > > > Backup policies are created on the Backup and Recovery provider and > > > > provide retention options and periods as well as backup times. For > > > example, > > > > the provider may expose Golden, Silver and Bronze policies and have > > > > different options for each of them. > > > > > > > > > > > > The 'external' parameter on the listBackupPolicies API method would > > only > > > > ask the Backup and Recovery provider to list their policies if it is > > set > > > to > > > > true. If it is not set, or set to false, it just simply returns the > > > > existing mapped policies in CloudStack. Initially, CloudStack does > not > > > > store any backup policy, those should be imported/mapped by the > > > > 'importBackupPolicy' API method. > > > > > > > > > > > > Finally, we consider backups as restore points. As mentioned above, > > > > backups are stored on the Backup and Recovery provider servers, so we > > > keep > > > > a mapping between the CloudStack entity and the backup, which can be > > used > > > > to restore VMs. > > > > > > > > > > > > Please let me know if anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Nicolas Vazquez > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: Rafael Weingärtner <rafaelweingart...@gmail.com> > > > > Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 6:55:57 AM > > > > To: dev > > > > Subject: Re: [PROPOSE] Backup and Recovery Framework > > > > > > > > Hi Nicolas, > > > > > > > > The idea is great. I have some questions though. > > > > > > > > Before getting to the questions, your pictures are broken, or at > least > > > they > > > > seem broken to me. > > > > > > > > How would the “dummy” backup provider work? I mean, what does it do? > > > where > > > > does it storage the "backup"? > > > > What is the difference from this Backup to a Snapshot? Is it simply > > > storing > > > > a snapshot outside the cloud structure? > > > > How would these “backup policies” look like? I mean, what can I > > > configure? > > > > Regarding that parameter “external” of your backup policy, how would > it > > > > work if we set it to false? > > > > What are you defining as a backup (what do you mean by backup in the > > > > context of this feature?)? I mean, is it simply a snapshot file that > > you > > > > store somewhere else? > > > > > > > > > > > > nicolas.vazq...@shapeblue.com > > > > www.shapeblue.com<http://www.shapeblue.com> > > > > , > > > > @shapeblue > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nicolas.vazq...@shapeblue.com > > > www.shapeblue.com > > > , > > > @shapeblue > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 6:05 AM, <daniel.herrm...@zv.fraunhofer.de> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > +1 for this feature request, thank you for bringing this to life! > > > Volume > > > > > snapshots are what our users currently use as backup solution, > which > > > has > > > > > some inherent problems such as handling large volumes and the > > handling > > > of > > > > > multiple volumes (consistency). > > > > > > > > > > One thought: when restoring a VM, I think there are two cases to > > > > consider: > > > > > > > > > > - The VM is still in CS and the user just wants to restore an old > > > version > > > > > of the VM > > > > > - The VM has already been deleted and the user wants to restore the > > > > > deleted VM > > > > > > > > > > As listBackups is described as " listBackups API method. List > > existing > > > > > backups for a VM". Is the second use case supported at all? > > > > > > > > > > I like the approach not to define the backup policies in CS but in > > > > > whatever tool is used in the end, as otherwise a lot of features > > might > > > be > > > > > lost. We as services providers need to create them in the first > > place, > > > > but > > > > > I think this is the better solution. > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > Daniel > > > > > > > > > > On 06.06.18, 14:43, "Nicolas Vazquez" < > > nicolas.vazq...@shapeblue.com> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We would like to introduce a new framework into CloudStack that > > > will > > > > > allow adding Backup and Recovery providers as plugins. This > framework > > > > goal > > > > > is allowing users to backup their guest VMs for recovery purposes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please find the FS on this link: https://cwiki.apache.org/ > > > > > confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/Backup+and+Recovery+Framework > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Nicolas Vazquez > > > > > > > > > > nicolas.vazq...@shapeblue.com > > > > > www.shapeblue.com<http://www.shapeblue.com> > > > > > , > > > > > @shapeblue > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Rafael Weingärtner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Rafael Weingärtner > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Rafael Weingärtner > > > -- Todd Pigram http://about.me/ToddPigram www.linkedin.com/in/toddpigram/ @pigram86 on twitter https://plus.google.com/+ToddPigram86 Mobile - 216-224-5769 PGP Public Key <http://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x96B7B0F0C55933BB>
