On Mar, 24 de Mayo de 2005, 16:18, Sebastien Arbogast dijo: > 2005/5/24, Upayavira <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >> Antonio Gallardo wrote: >> > On Mar, 24 de Mayo de 2005, 15:35, Sylvain Wallez dijo: >> > >> >>Sebastien Arbogast wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>>The second important thing I notice in your remark is the argument >> >>>that people here know Cocoon but not PHP. But it's exactly our point >> : >> >>>we don't think Cocoon documentation should remain between Cocoon >> >>>developers and that's also why we chose a PHP based CMS : because >> >>>people are used to it, to its structures, to its customs. Right now >> >>>it's much more natural than any Cocoon-based solution. We consider >> >>>that documentation should not be written by developers and read by >> >>>users... everybody should be able to participate in the same effort >> >>>according to its own skills. >> >>> >> >>>Last but not least, our objective is precisely to make documentation >> >>>writing completely independent from the unerlying technologies, so >> >>>nobody should need to know neither Cocoon nor PHP to write >> >>>documentation (yes a little bit of Cocoon should be useful if one >> >>>wants his content to be useful but... you got my point) >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >>I'm sorry, but this is plain bullshit blabla to ease the pain of not >> >>using our own dog food. >> >> >> >>Cocoon is used by some huge content management systems all over the >> >>world. And it wouldn't be suitable to manage its own docs? People will >> >>laugh at us and go away. >> > >> > >> > Sorry to get my spoon in this thread. Sylvain POV is valid. To make >> the >> > things clear, the problem related to cocoon docs was and IS content >> > related. No one technology is not going to automatically write the >> Cocoon >> > documentation for us now. We need people that write it. >> > >> > We have great CMS cocoon based as Apache Lenya or Daisy. Also there is >> > Apache Forrest. All of them can manage this task. But again the >> problem is >> > not about the technology. >> >> That is not correct. To use Forrest, Lenya, Daisy, or Drupal, for that >> matter, you need to be familiar with it. Mark is familiar with Drupal, >> so it is what he used. >> >> As I have said previously, people who want to write docs aren't >> necessarily the same people who want to learn and install (or even >> write) content management systems. If we want people to use a Cocoon >> based CMS, then we need to give them one! I.e. install it somewhere, set >> up the systems so that people who want to write content can just do it, >> without having to learn to use SVN, to download Forrest, etc, etc. No, >> just go to a website, click 'add', and start typing. >> >> Regards, Upayavira > > I won't enter this polemic since we have already had this discussion > before and Upayavira's arguments speak for themselves. > Sylvain and Antonio let me just ask you one single question : if those > Cocoon-based CMS are so wonderful (and actually they are, but not for > what we need) why is that that Cocoon documentation is still such an > issue after five years of Cocoon development ?
The answer to your question is because things evolve in time. I will like to see you 3 or 4 years ago when there was literally NO cocoon documentation at all. Just a handfull to start. But this is not the point now. Being rethoric as you like, there are a lot of other question to ask. For example, show me the documents written that does not contain info that is not in our wiki our docs our mail archives? > For you technology is not the matter. For us it is. > And we want to get things done now. That's it. Well, where are the new great docs? As you told, you want the things done and I want to see them! ;-) The only thing I was able to see is a lot of mail talking endlessly about how to improve the docs and nothing more. That's all. And BTW, I already read a lot of this mails about the same topic for years. It is really boring. > End of this discussion for me... As you wish. Should I can you now, boss? ;-) Best Regards, Antonio Gallardo.
