Hi all, If I understand the various documents/pages available regarding voting correctly, voting a new member in can't be vetoed. Likewise is it with respect to voting for board members. If I have missed a page somewhere, please point me to it and I stand corrected.
The following document https://community.apache.org/newcommitter.html states: A positive result is achieved by Consensus Approval i.e. at least 3 +1 votes and no vetoes. Any veto must be accompanied by reasoning and be prepared to defend it. Other members can attempt to encourage them to change. While this document talks about getting new committers in a project, it also seem to be applicable when it comes to getting new PMC members and even who chairs the PMC. So how can it be that when it comes to projects, vetoes can be expressed and block innovation or growth? One of the reasons I heard when discussing this was that it establishes control or manageability of the projects member list. Wouldn't a simple majority (more +1 than -1 votes) yield the same result? If someone would feel that non-acceptance of a new person would benefit the project, wouldn’t it be more proper/righteous that he should put in the effort and get a majority of votes? It is understandable why the ASF (and its projects) have the veto principle regarding code changes as it ensures that the(released) works of the project are of a higher quality than the previous work, and that the works don't change to something else than what is stated in the mission of the project (meaning that e.g. the primary work of the Apache HTTP project - httpd can't be converted into e.g. foo widget). When it comes to people (and organisations), vetoes have proven that it is a means to force consensus into a certain direction. It might have some valid grounds when only a few have the biggest gun and they want to keep others from getting the same gun (and thus rights/power), but in a environment (as the ASF is) that builds on collaboration it is seems overkill. What do you think? Is, when it comes to people, the veto mechanism not out of place for an ASF project? Best regards, Pierre Smits *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>* Services & Solutions for Cloud- Based Manufacturing, Professional Services and Retail & Trade http://www.orrtiz.com
