On 20 May 2015 at 02:21, Hervé BOUTEMY <herve.bout...@free.fr> wrote: > Le mercredi 20 mai 2015 00:55:47 sebb a écrit : >> On 19 May 2015 at 23:52, Hervé BOUTEMY <herve.bout...@free.fr> wrote: >> > Le lundi 18 mai 2015 14:03:39 Sergio Fernández a écrit : >> >> Hi guys, >> >> >> >> I have to admit I'm a bit lost with the development here; I do not have >> >> that much time, things change quite fast and discussions are a bit hard >> >> to >> >> follow. Hervé has done a great work; so some guidelines where I can >> >> contribute would help me a lot. >> >> >> >> One question Hervé, do all rdf files at >> >> https://projects-new.apache.org/doap/ are automatically generated or >> >> copied >> >> from svn? >> > >> > these ones are automatically generated from committer-info.txt by >> > parsecommittees.py >> > >> > http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/comdev/projects.apache.org/scripts/import/par >> > secommittees.py >> > >> > what I still don't know is what is expected handwritten data in the PMC >> > data files >> >> That is described here: >> >> http://projects.apache.org/docs/pmc.html > yeah, I found and now understand: I tried to improve explanations to fix why I > didn't understand explanations before (even if I read them multiple times) and > was confused between projects DOAP files and committees PMC descriptor files > > There are still confusing parts, IMHO: > - PMC entry under "DOAP Files" section > - "PMC descriptors" section in http://projects.apache.org/guidelines.html > > But probably it's not really time to invest in projects.a.o since I hope we'll > be able to switch to projects-new.a.o > > I just added committee.html separate from project.html, and made different > links for PMCs and projects: > https://projects-new.apache.org/projects.html?pmc > >> >> > and if we really should try to generate such pmc.rdf files instead of >> > reading content from >> > http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/infrastructure/site-tools/trunk/projects/ >> > pmc_list.xml >> Most of the PMC data files are basic place-holders, but the syntax >> allows PMCs to create and maintain their own RDF files. >> >> Do we really want to prevent them doing so? > the only information that require manual entry is charter:
So where is the charter to be documented? > everything else can > be automated, which will be easier and give better accuracy >> >> Maybe the solution would be to ignore the dummy references such as >> >> <asfext:pmc rdf:resource="http://{tlp}.apache.org/"; /> > yes, this dummy reference is a problem since it's "magic" > >> >> and instead generate the required info from other sources. >> >> However, I don't know whether there is a canonical source for deriving >> the internal name and home page of a PMC from its full name >> e.g. >> Apache Portable Runtime => apr & http://apr.apache.org/ >> Apache HttpComponents => httpcomponents & http://hc.apache.org/ >> >> There are other such examples where the conversion cannot readily be >> automated. [Except by maintaining a list of the exceptions somewhere] > I coded the few exceptions in the beginning of parsecommittees.py Which is yet another place that has this information. > Now we just need to define where to maintain the charter info, and generated > pmc.rdf files from committee-info.txt + this charter will be the most accurate > and easy to find since it's a codified url: > http://project-new.a.o/doap/{committee id}/pmc.rdf > Notice that I can improve parsecommittees.py to only update rdf files and not > erase charter info but only update chair and PMC members > >> >> > I try to maintain ideas and comments in "Work in Progres" section of about >> > page: https://projects-new.apache.org/about.html >> >> Might be easier to use a Wiki page for that? > it's temporary Even more reason to use the Wiki, surely? > Regards, > > Hervé > >> >> > Regards, >> > >> > Hervé >> > >> >> Cheers, >> >> >> >> On Sat, May 16, 2015 at 4:42 PM, sebb <seb...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > On 16 May 2015 at 08:22, Hervé BOUTEMY <herve.bout...@free.fr> wrote: >> >> > > Le samedi 16 mai 2015 00:36:03 sebb a écrit : >> >> > >> On 15 May 2015 at 22:08, Hervé BOUTEMY <herve.bout...@free.fr> > wrote: >> >> > >> > Le vendredi 15 mai 2015 14:02:52 sebb a écrit : >> >> > >> >> On 14 May 2015 at 23:38, Hervé BOUTEMY <herve.bout...@free.fr> >> >> > >> >> > wrote: >> >> > >> >> > Hi, >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > I seriously updated content: >> >> > >> >> > - *every* TLP is listed, even when no DOAP file has been >> >> > >> >> > written >> >> > >> >> > [1] >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > - TLP project can be displayed, even without DOAP and provide >> >> > >> >> > link >> >> > >> >> > to >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > every >> >> > >> >> > sub-project [2] >> >> > >> >> > - when a TLP has a "main sub-project" with its DOAP file, data >> >> > >> >> > from TLP >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > and >> >> > >> >> > data from DOAP subproject are clearly separate [3] >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> The URLs [1] [2] [3] use the same namespace for PMCs and projects >> >> > >> >> as >> >> > >> >> well as generic queries. >> >> > >> >> This may cause name clashes in future - e.g. a PMC called >> >> > >> >> "numbers" >> >> > >> >> would clash with the "numbers" view of the data. >> >> > >> > >> >> > >> > not exactly: [1] is project*s*.html while the 2 others are >> >> > >> >> > project.html >> >> > >> >> > >> > so no clash between projects listing type and project/PMC >> >> > >> >> >> > >> Ah, OK, I'd not noticed the subtle difference. >> >> > >> >> >> > >> However there is still a potential name clash: the Ant PMC is not >> >> > >> the >> >> > >> same as the Ant project produced by the Ant PMC. >> >> > > >> >> > > yes, even if Ant is one of the few committees that explicitely makes >> >> > > a >> >> > > difference between the committee and the project even if they share >> >> > > the >> >> > >> >> > same >> >> > >> >> > > name >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> It would be better to use distinct namespaces for distinct types >> >> > >> >> of >> >> > >> >> > item. >> >> > >> >> > >> > I don't think a clash between a PMC and a project can happen: if >> >> > >> > they >> >> > >> >> > have >> >> > >> >> > >> > the same id, it should be TLP's PMC, isn't it? >> >> > >> >> >> > >> No, they are not the same thing. >> >> > >> A project is not a PMC, though they may have the same name. >> >> > >> >> >> > >> A PMC is a group of people; >> >> > > >> >> > > ok >> >> > > question: are committers a second group of people attached to a PMC? >> >> > >> >> > Not always. >> >> > The committers LDAP groups are basically used to grant permission to >> >> > access code repos. >> >> > Not all PMCs use them, for example Subversion (and more recently >> >> > Commons) allow any ASF committer (another LDAP group) write access to >> >> > their source code. >> >> > >> >> > Incubator committer groups are not defined in LDAP but have the same >> >> > purpose as the LDAP ones. >> >> > >> >> > > To me, >> >> > > that's the case, even if some projects have their own committers list >> >> > >> >> > (like >> >> > >> >> > > incubator projects, or I suppose the lucene-* or hive-hcatalog or >> >> > >> >> > xmlgraphics- >> >> > >> >> > > fop & xmlgraphics-batik LDAP groups representing projects that didn't >> >> > >> >> > write >> >> > >> >> > > DOAP file) >> >> > > see http://people.apache.org/committers-by-project.html >> >> > >> >> > The lucene/hive/etc groups are historic and AIUI are deprecated >> >> > because of the overhead of maintainance etc. >> >> > It is much preferred to use social means to control who is "allowed" >> >> > to update code, as is done by Subversion and Commons. >> >> > >> >> > > I suppose we could display the difference when some projects have >> >> > > their >> >> > >> >> > own >> >> > >> >> > > committers list that is different from the TLP's committers list >> >> > >> >> > Not sure the distinction is useful. >> >> > The current people site just displays the membership of the various >> >> > different groups; it is up to the reader to know what the group does. >> >> > >> >> > >> a project is a software artifact. >> >> > > >> >> > > ok, >> >> > > that's the classical way IT people talk, even if that's not the way >> >> > >> >> > business >> >> > >> >> > > people talk: I think this is a cause for major misunderstandings >> >> > > between >> >> > >> >> > devs >> >> > >> >> > > and business, but that's a larger problem than ASF's internals we're >> >> > >> >> > working >> >> > >> >> > > on :) >> >> > >> >> > It's not just IT people - in the UK at least, one can refer to a >> >> > "woodworking project" . >> >> > >> >> > > what is confusing, IMHO, is that we tell that a TLP == a PMC >> >> > > and a PMC != projects >> >> > >> >> > it is a project management committee, not a project. >> >> > >> >> > > then a TLP != project: which in full words is "a Top Level Project is >> >> > >> >> > not a >> >> > >> >> > > project": confusing >> >> > >> >> > I don't think TLP is a synonym for PMC; they are different types of >> >> > entity. >> >> > However the terms are often used as if they are interchangeable. >> >> > >> >> > A software project (releaseable source code) usually starts via the >> >> > Incubator. >> >> > If it generates enough interest and community it will generally become >> >> > a TLP overseen by a PMC. >> >> > But it might become a project run by an existing PMC. >> >> > >> >> > > I'll create committee.html to display PMC (or "TLP") information and >> >> > > let >> >> > > projects link to the committee: that should be easy to do and revert >> >> > > if >> >> > >> >> > we're >> >> > >> >> > > not happy with the result >> >> > >> >> > Good. >> >> > >> >> > Each PMC page also needs to include links to the project(s) it is >> >> > responsible for. >> >> > >> >> > > notice that https://projects-new.apache.org/projects.html?pmc is >> >> > >> >> > confusing >> >> > >> >> > > with this definition in place: TLP (ie PMC with our definition) icons >> >> > > are >> >> > > displayed against projects >> >> > > If not too risky, I'll update this part too when trying >> >> > > committee.html >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > one good thing with committee.html is that we'll be able to display >> >> > >> >> > special >> >> > >> >> > > committees >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > This makes more clear what DOAP is used for (and why we need >> >> > >> >> > projects >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > hand- >> >> > >> >> > writing some data, but not everything) >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > I didn't update target doap urls [4] since I don't know what >> >> > >> >> > precisely >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > to >> >> > >> >> > do: copy doap files that were processed, in appropriate >> >> > >> >> > directory, >> >> > >> >> > and >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > with consistent filename than generated json? >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> What are the target DOAP files used for? >> >> > >> > >> >> > >> > I don't know: I coded what I understood from discussion with >> >> > >> > Sergio >> >> > >> > Fernández But I admit I don't really know if this is a good idea >> >> > >> > or >> >> > >> >> > not >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Where do they originate? >> >> > >> > >> >> > >> > {tlp-id}/pmc.rdf is generated with info parsed from >> >> > >> >> > committee-info.txt by >> >> > >> >> > http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/comdev/projects.apache.org/scripts/import/ >> >> > par >> >> > >> >> > >> > secommittees.py?view=markup (with the help of >> >> > >> > http://www.apache.org/#projects-list scraped info for short >> >> > >> >> > description) >> >> > >> >> > >> > And the idea behind rdf copy was just to copy files in a uniform >> >> > >> >> > location >> >> > >> >> > >> > from >> >> > >> >> > https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/infrastructure/site-tools/trunk/projec >> >> > ts >> >> > >> >> > >> > /files.xml to ease DOAP finding just an idea >> >> > >> > >> >> > >> > Regards, >> >> > >> > >> >> > >> > Hervé >> >> > >> > >> >> > >> >> > Feedback expected :) >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Regards, >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Hervé >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > [1] https://projects-new.apache.org/projects.html?pmc >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > [2] https://projects-new.apache.org/project.html?commons >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > [3] https://projects-new.apache.org/project.html?ant >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > [4] https://projects-new.apache.org/doap/ >
