Hello all,

I'm just curious what is the progress on the ALC logo? Is there
anything we can do to help?

Cheers,
Tomek

On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 11:39 PM Kenneth Paskett <k...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Hello again -
>
> I just want to send a final reminder that tomorrow is the last day to provide 
> feedback on the draft logos for the Apache Local Communities. After that I 
> will be taking the feedback and refining the logo. Thank you to all of you 
> who have already filled out the survey.
>
> Thank you!
> ~Kenneth
>
> On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 5:15 PM Kenneth Paskett <k...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hello everyone -
>>
>> I hope you are all well and safe.
>>
>> I have put together a survey to provide you an opportunity to give feedback 
>> on some draft versions of a logo for the Apache Local Community and 
>> chapters. Please provide all your feedback in that form so I can keep it all 
>> gathered in one place. The votes and feedback from that form will be taken 
>> into consideration as I further develop and finalize the logo.
>>
>> Please submit your feedback by April 10, 2020.
>>
>> The form can be found at: https://forms.gle/x82XdLXbPkGXf9U29
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Kenneth Paskett
>> Creative Lead
>> ASF Central Services
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 12:44 PM Tomasz Urbaszek <turbas...@apache.org> 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks Kenneth for the update! I fully understand your situation, there's 
>>> no haste ;)
>>>
>>> Keep safe all,
>>> T.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 7:39 PM Sally Khudairi <s...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for the update, Kenneth.
>>>>
>>>> Please do not worry about this --our concern and priority is your safety.
>>>>
>>>> I'm confident our community understands the situation and is willing to 
>>>> remain patient a bit longer.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Sally
>>>>
>>>> - - -
>>>> Vice President Marketing & Publicity
>>>> Vice President Sponsor Relations
>>>> The Apache Software Foundation
>>>>
>>>> Tel +1 617 921 8656 | s...@apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Mar 18, 2020, at 14:29, Kenneth Paskett wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Tomasz,
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for following up with me. Unfortunately with the impact of 
>>>> COVID-19, I am now working from home for my day job, which in turn has 
>>>> impacted my normal routine for time to work on Apache projects. I'm 
>>>> starting to get into a new routine (despite it being thrown off again this 
>>>> morning by our earthquake) and am hoping to have a least two versions sent 
>>>> soon.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for your patience!
>>>>
>>>> ~Kenneth
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Mar 18, 2020, 10:49 AM Tomasz Urbaszek <turbas...@apache.org> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Kenneth,
>>>>
>>>> Is there any update on ALC branding? Any way we can help? :)
>>>>
>>>> T.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 5:52 PM Jarek Potiuk <ja...@potiuk.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > +1 for no design by committee :)
>>>> >
>>>> > On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 4:09 PM Sally Khudairi <s...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > > Hi folks --I appreciate everyone's input and enthusiasm, but let's not
>>>> > > micromanage the process or design by committee.
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Kenneth knows what our requirements are. Let's leave him to come up 
>>>> > > with
>>>> > > some proposals that we can respond to. Right now, we have concepts and
>>>> > > suggested creative approaches. That's all great. Now we wait :-)
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Many thanks,
>>>> > > Sally
>>>> > >
>>>> > > - - -
>>>> > > Vice President Marketing & Publicity
>>>> > > Vice President Sponsor Relations
>>>> > > The Apache Software Foundation
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Tel +1 617 921 8656 | s...@apache.org
>>>> > >
>>>> > > On Mon, Mar 9, 2020, at 11:06, Attila Bukor wrote:
>>>> > > > Swapnil, the logo looks great, but this icon is unfortunately
>>>> > > patented[1], so I
>>>> > > > wouldn't recommend using it.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > What if the ALC logo doesn't have any icon besides the feather logo 
>>>> > > > and
>>>> > > the
>>>> > > > text and each chapter could use something that is something the city 
>>>> > > > is
>>>> > > known
>>>> > > > for? For example ALC San Francisco could use the Golden Gate bridge.
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > Attila
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > [1] https://pdfpiw.uspto.gov/50/209/D06/1.pdf
>>>> > > >
>>>> > > > On Mon, Mar 09, 2020 at 07:45:10AM -0600, Kenneth Paskett wrote:
>>>> > > > > Thank you Swapnil, I'll take your recommendations into 
>>>> > > > > consideration. I
>>>> > > > > have started mocking up a couple of versions that I hope to be 
>>>> > > > > able to
>>>> > > > > share with you by the end of the week.
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > ~Kenneth
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > On Fri, Mar 6, 2020, 6:19 AM Swapnil M Mane 
>>>> > > > > <swapnilmm...@apache.org>
>>>> > > wrote:
>>>> > > > >
>>>> > > > > > Hello Kenneth,
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > Here are a few thoughts I have in mind related to the logo.
>>>> > > > > > -- We can use map pointer with the Apache feather logo.
>>>> > > > > > -- We can have a logo for a for ALC.
>>>> > > > > > -- The ALC logo will have predefine space where ALC Chapter can 
>>>> > > > > > put
>>>> > > > > > their chapter name to make ALC Chapter specific logo (We should 
>>>> > > > > > set
>>>> > > up
>>>> > > > > > guidelines for using and customizing the ALC logo to make it a
>>>> > > > > > chapter-specific).
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > Please refer to the raw logo I prepared taking the above points 
>>>> > > > > > into
>>>> > > > > > consideration.
>>>> > > > > > ALC Logo - https://s.apache.org/wrubv
>>>> > > > > > ALC Chapter (e.g. ALC Indore) - https://s.apache.org/11527
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > Again I have just tried to portrait the thoughts I had in mind,
>>>> > > > > > Kenneth, you are our creative expert, please feel free to make
>>>> > > > > > updates/changes as you feel. :)
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > Best regards,
>>>> > > > > > Swapnil M Mane,
>>>> > > > > > www.apache.org
>>>> > > > > > On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 7:33 PM Kenneth Paskett <k...@apache.org>
>>>> > > wrote:
>>>> > > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > > Hello -
>>>> > > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > > I will add this task to my todo list. Thank you for the
>>>> > > suggestions,
>>>> > > > > > I'll do my best to incorporate them, while following our brand
>>>> > > guidelines.
>>>> > > > > > Swapnil, I'll keep my eye out for your design idea as well.
>>>> > > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > > ~Kenneth
>>>> > > > > > >
>>>> > > > > > > On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 8:57 PM jincheng sun <
>>>> > > sunjincheng...@gmail.com>
>>>> > > > > > wrote:
>>>> > > > > > >>
>>>> > > > > > >> +1  for both Tomek‘s proposal and Willem‘s suggestion.
>>>> > > > > > >>
>>>> > > > > > >> I would like share my thoughts:
>>>> > > > > > >>
>>>> > > > > > >> Maybe we can have three parts, and on the left is a picture 
>>>> > > > > > >> and 2
>>>> > > lines
>>>> > > > > > of text on the right, just like Tomek‘s proposal. Regarding the
>>>> > > picture, we
>>>> > > > > > have two options:
>>>> > > > > > >>
>>>> > > > > > >>  1) With the localized Character of the city, Such as ACL 
>>>> > > > > > >> Beijing,
>>>> > > > > > could use "京" as the left part.
>>>> > > > > > >>  2) Using ASF logo Or ACL logo, i.e,  ACL designates a Logo, 
>>>> > > > > > >> and
>>>> > > each
>>>> > > > > > chapter 's logo contains the ACL logo.
>>>> > > > > > >>
>>>> > > > > > >> Best,
>>>> > > > > > >> Jincheng
>>>> > > > > > >>
>>>> > > > > > >>
>>>> > > > > > >> Jarek Potiuk <ja...@potiuk.com> 于2020年2月23日周日 下午3:21写道:
>>>> > > > > > >>>
>>>> > > > > > >>> +1
>>>> > > > > > >>>
>>>> > > > > > >>> On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 4:31 AM Willem Jiang <
>>>> > > willem.ji...@gmail.com>
>>>> > > > > > wrote:
>>>> > > > > > >>>
>>>> > > > > > >>> > +1 for it.
>>>> > > > > > >>> >
>>>> > > > > > >>> > BTW, Can we add some localized Character like Chinese into 
>>>> > > > > > >>> > the
>>>> > > logo?
>>>> > > > > > >>> >
>>>> > > > > > >>> > Willem Jiang
>>>> > > > > > >>> >
>>>> > > > > > >>> > Twitter: willemjiang
>>>> > > > > > >>> > Weibo: 姜宁willem
>>>> > > > > > >>> >
>>>> > > > > > >>> > On Sun, Feb 23, 2020 at 3:51 AM Tomasz Urbaszek <
>>>> > > > > > turbas...@apache.org>
>>>> > > > > > >>> > wrote:
>>>> > > > > > >>> > >
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > My only idea (apart from #LoveApache badge) was to have:
>>>> > > "ALC (ASF
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > Feather here) CityName" for short option and two-line 
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > bigger
>>>> > > > > > version
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > "CityName / Apache Local Community" with first line 
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > bigger
>>>> > > than the
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > second line.
>>>> > > > > > >>> > >
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > Bests,
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > Tomek
>>>> > > > > > >>> > >
>>>> > > > > > >>> > >
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > On Sat, Feb 22, 2020 at 7:51 PM Swapnil M Mane <
>>>> > > > > > swapnilmm...@apache.org>
>>>> > > > > > >>> > wrote:
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > > Thank you Tomasz for bringing this topic and Jarek, 
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > > Mark,
>>>> > > and,
>>>> > > > > > Sharan
>>>> > > > > > >>> > for your kind inputs.
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > > I have few thoughts for ALC logo since beginning of 
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > > this
>>>> > > > > > initiative,
>>>> > > > > > >>> > will share it soon.
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > > @Sally
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > > Thank you for your help.
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > > We don’t have any specific timeframe for this.
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > > @Kenneth,
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > > Nice to see you again, I will share some design 
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > > thoughts,
>>>> > > will
>>>> > > > > > sync up
>>>> > > > > > >>> > with you on this.
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > > @Team, if you have any design ideas, please feel free 
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > > to
>>>> > > share.
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > > Best Regards,
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > > Swapnil M Mane
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > > On Sat, 22 Feb 2020 at 11:17 PM, Sally Khudairi <
>>>> > > s...@apache.org>
>>>> > > > > > wrote:
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >>
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> Thank you, Mark. Hello, Tomasz.
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >>
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> ASF Marketing & Publicity will be happy to help with a
>>>> > > logo for
>>>> > > > > > ALC
>>>> > > > > > >>> > through our Central Services team. I am not aware of the
>>>> > > official
>>>> > > > > > cities
>>>> > > > > > >>> > involved, other than announcement from Swapnil on the 
>>>> > > > > > >>> > Indore
>>>> > > > > > chapter. I
>>>> > > > > > >>> > also understand that Warsaw, Beijing, and Budapest are
>>>> > > candidate
>>>> > > > > > cities
>>>> > > > > > >>> > from the ComDev archives.
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >>
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> I think Sharan's suggestion of creating a variant of 
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> the
>>>> > > > > > #LoveApache
>>>> > > > > > >>> > badge is a possibility in terms of design.
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >>
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> I'm copying Kenneth Paskett, Central Services creative
>>>> > > lead, to
>>>> > > > > > see
>>>> > > > > > >>> > what options are possible and get back to you.
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >>
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> Is there a specific timeframe for this?
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >>
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> Best,
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> Sally
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >>
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> - - -
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> Vice President Marketing & Publicity
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> Vice President Sponsor Relations
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> The Apache Software Foundation
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >>
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> Tel +1 617 921 8656 | s...@apache.org
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >>
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> On Sat, Feb 22, 2020, at 09:11, Mark Thomas wrote:
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > On February 17, 2020 8:04:03 AM UTC, Tomasz Urbaszek
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > <turbas...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >Thanks Jarek for the information (I am wondering 
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >how
>>>> > > this
>>>> > > > > > applies
>>>> > > > > > >>> > to
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >use
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >the badge generator with two feathers:
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >https://www.apache.org/foundation/press/kit/ ).
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >I am looping in trademarks@ as it seems we will 
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >need
>>>> > > some
>>>> > > > > > help :)
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >T.
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >On Mon, Feb 17, 2020 at 8:49 AM Jarek Potiuk <
>>>> > > > > > ja...@potiuk.com>
>>>> > > > > > >>> > wrote:
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> I am afraid rules of Apache logo are rather 
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> strict
>>>> > > about
>>>> > > > > > it. Not
>>>> > > > > > >>> > sure
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >about
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> ALC, but I think Apache Feather is the most 
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> protected
>>>> > > > > > asset of
>>>> > > > > > >>> > ASF
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >:).
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >>
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> I think I have not seen that apache logo used
>>>> > > anywhere
>>>> > > > > > except
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >ApacheCon and
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> there are specific rules for NOT using Apache 
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> logo
>>>> > > in the
>>>> > > > > > events:
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >>
>>>> > > > > > http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/events.html#graphics
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >>
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> "
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> Events may not normally use any Apache logos or
>>>> > > graphics
>>>> > > > > > as part
>>>> > > > > > >>> > of
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >their
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> primary event branding. Apache product logos may
>>>> > > only be
>>>> > > > > > used to
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >refer to
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> the Apache products or projects themselves, and 
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> must
>>>> > > be
>>>> > > > > > clearly
>>>> > > > > > >>> > set
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >off
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> from any of the events' own branding and logos.
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >>
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> If your event wishes to use an Apache project 
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> logo
>>>> > > within
>>>> > > > > > your
>>>> > > > > > >>> > event
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> branding, you must work with VP, Brand to 
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> explicitly
>>>> > > grant
>>>> > > > > > >>> > trademark
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >and
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> goodwill rights for the brand and event logo to 
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> the
>>>> > > ASF.
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >>
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> Event branding may not include the Apache 
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> feather in
>>>> > > any
>>>> > > > > > way. The
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >only use
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> of the bare Apache feather on event materials
>>>> > > allowed is to
>>>> > > > > > >>> > provide a
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> single link to http://www.apache.org/ as a
>>>> > > reference to
>>>> > > > > > The
>>>> > > > > > >>> > Apache
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> Software
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> Foundation, typically as a Community Partner or 
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> to
>>>> > > > > > otherwise
>>>> > > > > > >>> > refer to
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> Apache as a whole.
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> "
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >>
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> Maybe what we can do instead is just ALC specific
>>>> > > branding
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >guidelines?
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >>
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> J.
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >>
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >>
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> On Mon, Feb 17, 2020 at 8:41 AM Tomasz Urbaszek
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > ><turbas...@apache.org>
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> wrote:
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >>
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> > Hi all,
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> >
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> > I think it would be a good idea to have Apache
>>>> > > Local
>>>> > > > > > Community
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >logo.
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> > Having branding can help increase recognition 
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> > and
>>>> > > > > > underline
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >attachment
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> > to ASF. In my opinion, each chapter should have
>>>> > > its own
>>>> > > > > > logo
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> > customized by the name of the city.
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> >
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> > What is the process for such things? Should we
>>>> > > engage
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> > tradema...@apache.org ?
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> >
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> > Have a good day,
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> > Tomek Urbaszek
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> >
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> >
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> >
>>>> > > > > > >>> >
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>>>> > > > > > dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> > For additional commands, e-mail:
>>>> > > > > > dev-h...@community.apache.org
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> >
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> >
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >>
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> --
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >> +48 660 796 129
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > >>
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> >
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > Hi,
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> >
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > Since this is an ASF initiative we have a little 
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > more
>>>> > > > > > flexibility.
>>>> > > > > > >>> > The
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > press and marketing folks control what is an 
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > acceptable
>>>> > > usage
>>>> > > > > > for
>>>> > > > > > >>> > the
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > feather logo and associated graphics. I've cc'd 
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > them in
>>>> > > this
>>>> > > > > > >>> > response.
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> >
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > Anything they are happy with is fine from a brand
>>>> > > management
>>>> > > > > > >>> > perspective.
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> >
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > Mark
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> > VP, Brand Management
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> >
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >>
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >>
>>>> > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>>>> > > dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >> For additional commands, e-mail:
>>>> > > dev-h...@community.apache.org
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > >>
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > > --
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > > Best regards,
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > > Swapnil M Mane,
>>>> > > > > > >>> > > > www.apache.org
>>>> > > > > > >>> >
>>>> > > > > > >>> >
>>>> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>> > > > > > >>> > dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
>>>> > > > > > >>> > For additional commands, e-mail: 
>>>> > > > > > >>> > dev-h...@community.apache.org
>>>> > > > > > >>> >
>>>> > > > > > >>> >
>>>> > > > > > >>>
>>>> > > > > > >>> --
>>>> > > > > > >>> +48 660 796 129
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > >
>>>> > >
>>>> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>> > >
>>>> > >
>>>> >
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>>>>
>>>>

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