And in case you cannot see the attachment because of mailing list policies - feel free to reach me out directly - I will send you a copy by whatever means is convenient for you.
On Sun, Dec 4, 2022 at 9:43 PM Jarek Potiuk <ja...@potiuk.com> wrote: > > And following up on another (infra thread) - feel free NOT to click on > the link in the message if you are not willing to transmit anything to > Google. > > I am attaching a PDF version of the proposal for those who prefer not to. > > On Sun, Dec 4, 2022 at 9:40 PM Jarek Potiuk <ja...@potiuk.com> wrote: > > > > Hello everyone, > > > > I would like to start a discussion on something I've been thinking and > > discussing with a number of people offline, before I brought it here > > for wider discussion. > > > > I want to (eventually) propose to the board of the ASF to publish > > (formally among other ASF guidelines) a document that would make it > > clearer to both businesses and individuals what kind of business > > relations are "good" and "comply" with the Apache Way. > > > > The document is short, and follows - I think - the spirit of other > > guidelines and policies that the ASF publishes - in terms of being > > succinct, helpful and informative, but presenting the "spirit" of the > > guidelines rather than "precise implementation" of it. > > > > More context about the need is in the document - and I would really > > love people to take a close look at "whys" in the documentation. I > > opened the document for comments - so feel free to comment there if > > you have some concrete small proposals, but I think for the wider > > audience we should make "general" comments here in the comm devlist. > > > > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vp0eOeAHhRuTtps5I602MPduW7hYxtPORkkDtnlrIFo/edit > > > > Some more comments - more personal - why do I personally think we need it? > > > > I think sustainability and longevity of the Foundation and the PMCs it > > shepherds should be of uttermost importance. And I think in order to > > achieve that, we need more individuals at different stages of their > > professional career.- younger, more experienced, seasoned to be able > > to make the contribution to Apache Projects independently from their > > Employer funding, an important factor in the sustainability and > > longevity - strengthening vendor neutrality and other Apache Way > > approach. > > > > I am an example of an individual who established relationships with 5 > > different businesses for my OSS contributions, and thanks to that I > > can "make a living" from being an open-source contributor. I even get > > enough "living" that I can afford to spend (exclusively) my own money > > to go (as I did last week) to be a panelist and represent Open-Source > > practitioners at the EU commission in Brussels at the workshops > > https://swforum.eu/sustainability, together with Roman, Dirk and > > Geertjan (and maybe there were others I am not aware of). > > > > For me the workshops were very interesting, not only because we were > > able to pass a message to those who later will be participating in > > creating the laws and regulations, but also because I found that there > > are also others who have the same struggles I want to address in the > > document. Among other, undoubtedly important topics, I felt there were > > many voices on how individuals are struggling with establishing > > relations with businesses that are stakeholders in the open software > > they contribute to - procurement, contracts, expectations were all > > present in the voices I've heard. I could be biased of course, and > > hear only what I wanted to hear stronger than other voices, but still > > I think I've heard enough of the very same topics I raised in the > > document. > > > > But coming back to why I think it is needed? > > > > I had pretty unique experience, drive and capabilities (and quite a > > persistence) to get where I got now with being full-time open-source > > contributor. But it was far from easy. I got a number of bits and > > pieces together from various conversations and documents in order to > > be able to negotiate proper contracts, know what I can expect and also > > I had to convince the business partners of mine (yes - partners as I > > treat them and they treat me) that what I want in the contracts (and > > needs to be present due to the nature of cooperation and ASF > > expectations) is OK for them. I WISH I had such a document handy when > > I was negotiating my contract with Some companies (8 months was the > > longest). That would have cut many discussions and off-tracks - mostly > > because both parties would know for sure that the expectations of OSS > > contributions are different and that they are very different from the > > "standard" service contracts. > > > > I think not many of the people who would like to be full-time > > contributors will have enough financial stability, persistence, > > experience in contract negotiations and sometimes just the stamina and > > be bold enough to go through that without any guidelines and help. A > > good example was when I was not aware that I should really publicly > > state that my contributions will continue regardless if I am paid or > > not - I only learned that from a comment in one of the discussions > > with "longtimers" on one of the devlists. > > > > And I think just raising awareness to both - individual and businesses > > that such cooperation is not only possible but also perfectly OK with > > the ASF as long as it follows certain guidelines > > > > I also think (and I have some discussions that confirm that) that > > having such guidelines published by the ASF, would enable 3rd party > > companies to start providing services that would make it even easier: > > payments, contract negotiations and signing, legal responsibilities, > > lead generation - having such guidelines in place would remove the > > need of discussion "Are we ok with ASF guidelines or not" ? And those > > 3rd parties will even be able to use the "we are compliant with the > > ASF guidelines" message when talking to the contributors which will > > make them more trustworthy. > > > > I would love to hear what others think about it. > > > > Any constructive comments? > > > > Do you also find such guidelines useful and helpful ? > > > > Have I gone too far (or not too far in trying to describe what I > > understand is important? > > > > Eager to hear your thoughts. > > > > J. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
