Loophole question: can we start a campaign to complain just to get free beer?
On Fri, Sep 29, 2023, 15:25 Craig Russell <apache....@gmail.com> wrote: > I thought that a few folks responded to sebb earlier in the thread. > Repeating an earlier post does not make it a new post. > > Changing defaults will not affect people who have changed their own > project settings. And if they are happy with the defaults to the extent > that they complain about the defaults changing for the better, I will split > the bar tab with you > > Craig > > > On Sep 29, 2023, at 09:09, Christofer Dutz <christofer.d...@c-ware.de> > wrote: > > > > As it was pointed out that nobody responded to this, let me do so: > > > > We have provided docs for quite some time … nothing really has changed > as many projects are on a steep decline on using their lists. > > These proposes changes have seen a very dominant support by most people > who expressed their thoughts here. You are currently the only person > actively objecting. > > > > We are trying to improve things. > > We are also not forcing anything on anyone … whoever wants things to > stay the way they were, we provided all the information upfront to how they > can keep things the way they were. > > > > Let’s make a one-sided bet: if there are more people complaining about > the change after it happened than are expressing to be happy with them, > I’ll invite you to a beer? > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > Von: sebb <seb...@gmail.com> > > Datum: Freitag, 4. August 2023 um 11:21 > > An: dev@community.apache.org <dev@community.apache.org> > > Betreff: Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to > generate GitHub integration email subjecs? > > NAK - I don't think the defaults should be changed; instead provide > > docs on how to do so > > Don't force projects to change if they don't want to > > > > On Wed, 2 Aug 2023 at 07:46, Christofer Dutz <christofer.d...@c-ware.de> > wrote: > >> > >> Well, > >> > >> stating the obvious, I’ll add my +1 ;-) > >> > >> And yes Craig, I said the defaults … if you have explicitly configured > your .asf.yaml subjects, they are left unchanged. > >> > >> Chris > >> > >> > >> Von: Richard Zowalla <rich...@zowalla.com> > >> Datum: Mittwoch, 2. August 2023 um 08:10 > >> An: dev@community.apache.org <dev@community.apache.org> > >> Betreff: Re: [POLL] Should we ask Infra to change the defaults used to > generate GitHub integration email subjecs? > >> +1 > >> > >> Am 2. August 2023 07:47:25 MESZ schrieb Jarek Potiuk <ja...@potiuk.com > >: > >>> +1 > >>> > >>> On Wed, Aug 2, 2023 at 2:15 AM Craig Russell <apache....@gmail.com> > wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Hi Christofer, > >>>> > >>>> As long as projects with their own settings can continue to use them, > I'm > >>>> > >>>> +1 > >>>> > >>>> to change the defaults for all projects. If the projects don't like > being able to use their lists again, they can always go back to what they > had before. > >>>> > >>>> Thanks, > >>>> Craig > >>>> > >>>>> On Aug 1, 2023, at 05:16, Christofer Dutz <christofer.d...@c-ware.de> > wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Starting a new thread as the last one sort of dried up and didn’t > quite form anything actionable. > >>>>> > >>>>> Being subscribed to many of our mailing-lists and most recently > looking into every project, dev-lists when reviewing board reports, I have > seen many of our lists literally being rendered useless. > >>>>> > >>>>> Useless, because it’s almost impossible to follow these lists, as a > large percentage of the emails are: > >>>>> > >>>>> * Generated emails and the way they are currently generated makes > it impossible for email clients to correctly display them as threads. > >>>>> * Contain so much redundant information, that the actual start of > the header that I’m interested in reading is usually not readable on mobile > phones. > >>>>> * Most discussions have been moved away from the lists > (notifications@, commits@), having left over only skeletons in which > every now and then a vote is being handled. > >>>>> > >>>>> My proposal is to change the default settings for auto-generated > GitHub emails for all projects (not just the new ones) to be a much more > condensed version. > >>>>> > >>>>> With these changes, all existing lists, that haven’t manually > configured the format of the emails, instantly get readable lists again. > >>>>> > >>>>> Some would argue that there might be projects that could object > these changes, but I would on the other hand bet that more projects would > be in favor of such a change than not. > >>>>> Those who don’t want a change, can simply go back to the old format, > by specifying it in one commit for which we can even provide a default > .asf.yaml snippet. > >>>>> > >>>>> Some people expressed the wish to have longer prefixes, such as > “[ISSUE]”, “[PULL-REQUEST]” or “[DISCUSSION]” however do these not add much > information to the email that “[I]”, “[PR]” and “[D]” don’t and the shorter > version allows displaying more of the subject on mobile email clients. > >>>>> > >>>>> Here’s an example of a project list before the changes: > >>>>> > https://lists.apache.org/list?d...@streampipes.apache.org:dfr=2023-1-9|dto=2023-1-15 > >>>>> Here’s an example of the same list after using the other defaults: > >>>>> > https://lists.apache.org/list?d...@streampipes.apache.org:dfr=2023-6-12|dto=2023-6-18 > >>>>> > >>>>> Here’s an example on how even ponymail is now able to display > something happening on GitHub as a discussion you can also follow nicely > via email: > >>>>> https://lists.apache.org/thread/rnr9tjx9rsnqc7b5nwcf68qnp5bkr9hc > >>>>> > >>>>> I would propose to keep the repository as part of the templates, > even if since my PR last week was merged it’s now possible to omit that too. > >>>>> > >>>>> I care deeply about our projects, and I would really hate to see our > core principles being lost more and more (“If it didn’t happen on the list, > it didn’t happen”). > >>>>> > >>>>> You would make me really happy if I could get some general approval > by you folks here. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Chris > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> Craig L Russell > >>>> c...@apache.org > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org > >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org > >>>> > >>> > >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org > >>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org > >>> > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org > > Craig L Russell > c...@apache.org > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org > >
