> > > Except that every single time this comes up i beg people to volunteer and > help. Here's me, going that again. >
This is exactly the point I want to make. Those tools, board and the tooling person position of ours should not "beg" for it. They should find creative ways to make it happen. The example I gave - nobody told me to do it this way, I had no idea if it is going to work, or how to do it. Previously I followed the same pattern - I begged for help and it did not work. Until I took it into my own hands - not to "do it" but to "make it happen" by thinking and executing what I thought might work. And I keep on being engaged, active and encouraging and helping. Just saying "it needs to happen" is simply not going to fix it. And I am not telling at all you should do it personally Rich - I think it's generally board and VP tooling task to make it happen - for example by hiring the right person who will have their own ideas and initiative to come with ideas that even the board does not have. This is a bit the same as our discussion we had at Community Over Code - this is not about hiring "developer" or "administrative assistant", those names are wrong IMHO. It's about hiring a "leader" who will make it happen and who will find creative ways on how to engage the ASF community to help. > The underlying problem here is that people expect this to be a "supported" > service and it's just not. It never has been. > Yes. That's the same feeling I have, but if we actually manage to find the right leader who will take it in their own hands and will engage more of the community - those engaged people will become the "support team". > > This is a hugely important perspective and we should be sure that it gets > injected into the discussion of that position. I don't think this point has > been made. And that is a skill that isn't necessary going to be part of the > skill set of a tools engineer. > I thought my message in this thread is doing exactly this - bringing the perspective, and I hope those who see it will bring it to other discussions that I am not aware of and not involved in. But if you think I should present my perspective elsewhere, I am happy to do it. This is pretty much the same thing - I just do not know where and how - since I am not really involved or maybe not sure which conversations are taking place where. But if you guide me and help me to do it well, I am happy to present my perspective elsewhere. This was partially the reason I "complained" (which was really not the case and I explained it to Bob in our in-person discussion) on not being informed when I helped to kick off funding discussion and got the ASF into discussion about funding. I have not heard back for 2 months, I was not sure what happened and I was not involved in the discussions. Even now after being at Community Over Code and taking part in in-person discussions (with multiple people) and even talking several times about this very perspective of mine, I am not sure what to do next to make my perspective more "visible". But if I can be guided by anyone, I am absolutely happy to be involved in discussions there. J.
