My 2 cents regarding iOS, especially since reportedly iOS 7 (preview?) will probably be released in a couple of weeks. We've kind of had a "loose" rule of thumb of supporting iOS versions up to two versions back (so right now we do iOS 6 and 5). Mainly, for me, it's the testing burden - and honestly, do I adequately test on iOS 5 as much as I should? No.
Some background - Apple requires devs to build with the latest iOS SDK, and if you want to support an older iOS target you set the "Deployment Target" to that iOS version. Really great right? Well not exactly. If somehow you used an iOS 6 SDK function on an iOS 5 device (without runtime safeguards) - crash. We could catch this during runtime tests or catch it at compile time only when we compile using that older SDK you want to target (Apple does not provide older SDKs to compile with, with each Xcode release). I suppose we could install an older version of Xcode in an older version of OS X (Apple is not really helping us here -- see how the work multiplies). I guess what I'm saying is if we dedicate some resources for handling this (automated tests for older versions) plus dev guidelines for using newer SDK functions, it could work. Even better if there are tools to detect that we are using newer SDK functions and give out warnings (I don't know of any currently) so we can "wrap" these calls to check for function availability during runtime (which Objective-C allows since its a dynamic language). This could change with iOS in 3.0.0 - with a tighter focus on the core we could possibly support an older iOS version. Not that we can ignore the core plugins of course, but those can be "versioned" as well I suppose. On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 11:43 AM, Marcel Kinard <cmarc...@gmail.com> wrote: > There is a window of device OS's that Cordova supports, from the > latest-and-greatest, to some number of levels back. As Cordova picks up new > device OS's, old ones drop away, and the window tends to a standard size. > > I'm hearing from customers that use Cordova in large Asian markets that > public users there have a different device OS upgrade cycle / behavior than > in North America / Europe. Specifically Android 2.2 and iOS 4.2 are still > in use, with percentages that are significantly above the worldwide > averages. > > For those Cordova users that want old device OS's, I'm tempted to steer > them toward an older Cordova that covers the older OS. But that doesn't > work when they want coverage for a new OS at the same time. I have memories > of the breaking changes that iOS 6 introduced, for example. So where the > Cordova users are left is developing two apps, one for old device OS's > using an old Cordova, and another for the latest device OS's using a recent > Cordova. Of course, the customers don't like that dual effort. But at the > same time they can't tell some significant number of device users "too bad > for having an old phone OS" because those are their business customers. If > you are a bank or a railway or whatever, the local users need to be > addressed. > > So the gist of what I'm asking for here is if the window can be widened. > Not that old OS's be kept around indefinitely, but that it be longer. There > are areas of the world that diverge more than we thought from the worldwide > averages, and users in these areas are becoming unable to use Cordova > because of the usage assumptions we make. And I understand sometimes there > are technical limitations that can't be worked around, such as Xcode > restrictions for example. But if there is no technical limitation, can we > widen the window? > > Starting off, specifically, I'm asking if we can keep Android 2.2 in > Cordova head. For how long? Until the OS usage in these markets drops into > the "doesn't matter" threshold. I suspect that will not be just a few > months. And does the definition of "keep" mean "actively support" or "just > avoid breaking it"? I'm open to suggestions. If I'm the only person asking > for this, I understand I need to have some skin in the game. > > I suspect there will be loathing by the Android folks here since they are > looking forward to ripping 2.2 ugliness out, but I need to ask this > question. Thanks! > > -- Marcel Kinard > > On Apr 26, 2013, at 8:18 PM, Lorin Beer <lorin.beer....@gmail.com> wrote: > > > - list warning +1 > > - follow 3-release deprecation policy on this +1 > > - Joe's blog post on deprecation +1 > > > > we announce before or as 2.7.0 hits, removal happens in 3.0 > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Simon MacDonald < > simon.macdon...@gmail.com > >> wrote: > > > >> Do it. +1 > >> On Apr 26, 2013 1:09 PM, "Joe Bowser" <bows...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >>> If it's official, we should announce it in a blog or something. Are > >>> people cool with me writing a blog post about this and getting it on > >>> PhoneGap.com? > >>> > >>> On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 10:06 AM, Michal Mocny <mmo...@chromium.org> > >>> wrote: > >>>> I thought we switched to 3 release policy -- and planned to start in > >> 2.7 > >>> to > >>>> be done by 3.0? > >>>> > >>>> Or is that not official yet? > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 12:48 PM, Joe Bowser <bows...@gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> I haven't added the tickets yet. Do we want to deprecate by 3.0 or > >>>>> follow the six month deprecation policy? > >>>>> > >>>>> On Fri, Apr 26, 2013 at 9:04 AM, Andrew Grieve <agri...@chromium.org > > > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>>> Joe - did you take any action here? JIRA issue? changing of min > >>> version? > >>>>>> Does this mean we can remove apache commons jar? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 9:59 AM, Simon MacDonald > >>>>>> <simon.macdon...@gmail.com>wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Late to the party but... > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> +1 for dropping support for 2.2 > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Simon Mac Donald > >>>>>>> http://hi.im/simonmacdonald > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 9:53 AM, James Jong <wjamesj...@gmail.com> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>> Deprecation in 2.7? > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> -James Jong > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On Apr 15, 2013, at 1:27 PM, Filip Maj <f...@adobe.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Looks like we have consensus > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Joe is going to be happy :) > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> On 4/15/13 10:24 AM, "Andrew Grieve" <agri...@chromium.org> > >>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> +1 DROP! > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 6:04 PM, Shazron <shaz...@gmail.com> > >>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> My Nexus One latest upgradeable OS is 2.3.6 > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> +1 for dropping fwiw > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 2:58 PM, Lorin Beer < > >>>>> lorin.beer....@gmail.com > >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> +1 for dropping > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Steve found a Nexus One in his filing cabinet last week, > >> wonder > >>>>> what > >>>>>>>>>>> that > >>>>>>>>>>>> was running ... > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 2:53 PM, Tommy-Carlos Williams > >>>>>>>>>>>> <to...@devgeeks.org>wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hahahah... > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> It was on "Catch of the Day" (an Australian daily deals type > >>>>> site). > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ideos X1 - Android 2.2 > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/04/2013, at 7:43 AM, Joe Bowser <bows...@gmail.com> > >>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Was this on Craigslist? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 2:16 PM, tommy-carlos Williams > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <to...@devgeeks.org> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I saw a 2.2 device for sale the other day. I had a sad. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 for dropping it. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/04/2013, at 6:11, Lucas Holmquist < > >>> lholm...@redhat.com> > >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On our AeroGear project, the lowest thing we support on > >>>>> android > >>>>>>>>>>> is > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2.3, so +1 for removing > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 10, 2013, at 3:47 PM, Brian LeRoux <b...@brian.io> > >>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lets give this a few days to make sure we're not about > >>> hurt > >>>>>>>>>>> anyone. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (I'm in favor of removing support.) > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 12:03 PM, Michael Wolf < > >>>>>>>>>>>>> michael.w...@cynergy.com>wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fwiw I wasn't saying 2.3, but 2.2. The consideration > >> of > >>>>>>>>>>> supporting > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2.3 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> goes based on who your consumer base is, and if 2.3 is > >>> worth > >>>>>>>>>>> it > >>>>>>>>>>>> (had > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> several customers recently where this is a serious > >>>>>>>>>>> discussion). > >>>>>>>>>>>>> AnywhoŠ > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> loosing 2.2 I don't think would hurt the community > >>> greatly. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mw > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/10/13 2:54 PM, "Joe Bowser" <bows...@gmail.com> > >>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone who thinks we don't need 2.3 support needs to > >>> look > >>>>> at > >>>>>>>>>>> what > >>>>>>>>>>>> I > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was considering purchasing for my US phone when on > >> road > >>>>>>>>>>> trips to > >>>>>>>>>>>>> weird > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> places like Idaho: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > >> > http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/prepay/getPhoneDetail.do?item=prepayIt > >>>>>>>>>>> e > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> m&selectedPhoneId=6093&selectedPlanCatId=4997 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 11:51 AM, Michael Wolf < > >>>>>>>>>>>>> michael.w...@cynergy.com> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Generally we are pushing clients to not touch > >> anything > >>>>> lower > >>>>>>>>>>> than > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2.3 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (And > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> having serious discussions about their need for 2.3 > >>>>>>>>>>> support). > >>>>>>>>>>> So > >>>>>>>>>>>>> from a > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cordova users perspective this wouldn't bother me. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mw > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/10/13 2:10 PM, "Joe Bowser" <bows...@gmail.com> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Android 2.2 is a pain point because we only have one > >>>>>>>>>>> device in > >>>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Vancouver office that is on that version of Android > >>> (LG > >>>>>>>>>>> Optimus > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 3D). > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm sure that other places have more of them, but > >> they > >>>>> are > >>>>>>>>>>>>> becoming > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> increasingly rare, and I'd rather us only have to > >> test > >>>>> 2.3 > >>>>>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>>>>> higher > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when we prepare for a release. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 10:54 AM, Braden Shepherdson > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <bra...@chromium.org> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do we have a picture of what this would gain us? > >> What > >>>>> are > >>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>>> pain > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> points > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in terms of bugs or missing APIs between 2.2 and > >>> 2.3? I > >>>>>>>>>>> have > >>>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>>> vague > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impression that there are several things, but I > >>> actually > >>>>>>>>>>> don't > >>>>>>>>>>>>> know. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If there are advantages, I'm all for it. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Braden > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 1:49 PM, Joe Bowser < > >>>>>>>>>>> bows...@gmail.com > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good news everyone! Android 2.2 (Froyo) has dipped > >>>>> below > >>>>>>>>>>> 5%. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> This > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> means that we can safely drop support for this > >>> version > >>>>> of > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Android and > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> set our lower bound to Android 2.3. The cool > >> thing > >>>>> about > >>>>>>>>>>> this > >>>>>>>>>>>>> is > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we will only support devices that you can actually > >>> buy > >>>>>>>>>>> in a > >>>>>>>>>>>>> store at > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this point, which I think is something that we > >>> should > >>>>> aim > >>>>>>>>>>>>> towards. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Honestly, if Key Lime Pie figured out a way to get > >>> 4.x > >>>>>>>>>>>>> functionality > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on single-core devices, that'd be awesome, but I > >>> highly > >>>>>>>>>>> doubt > >>>>>>>>>>>>> it. :( > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, what do people think about getting rid of > >> Froyo > >>>>>>>>>>> support? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Joe > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > >> > >
