Well as someone new to Apache I’m still not yet entirely sure of the rationale between having a distinction between the two :)
I think for a small project like Corinthia is right now, it makes sense to have Committer == PPMC. We want to build up the project community, and I see welcoming people and being inclusive as being important pre-requisites to that. If and when (hopefully when) the project gets larger and moves into a TLP, it may be appropriate to have only a subset of participants on the PPC, depending on the number of committers and their level of involvement with the project. As an open source project, I think we should try to be as open and democratic as possible, and I’m in favour of using private lists only where absolutely necessary. I propose that during the incubation period, we have Committer == PPMC, and then we revisit this discussion if & when we prepare to become a TLP. — Dr Peter M. Kelly [email protected] PGP key: http://www.kellypmk.net/pgp-key <http://www.kellypmk.net/pgp-key> (fingerprint 5435 6718 59F0 DD1F BFA0 5E46 2523 BAA1 44AE 2966) > On 19 Dec 2014, at 11:57 pm, jan i <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi. > > *Preamble:* > > Sorry about the fuzz, but we have to do things right, and I started this > discussion from a wrong perspective. > > In my opinion it is the community as a whole who decide (within the limits > of the bylaws) how our PPMC shall operate, therefore this discussion is an > open discussion. > > As initial committers we are all PPMC, so this discussion is solely about > new people coming to the project. > > > > *Discussion starting point:* > For a small project like ours, there are no logical reason to make a > difference between being committer and PPMC. I believe it can be directly > harmful to the project. > > Example (another project): In budapest we were 6 people gathered around a > table discussion the future of the project. 3 PMC, 1 committer (but ASF > member) and 2 committers.....We had to stop the discussion several times, > due to the fact "oooh this happened on the private list", I still wonder > how the 2 committers felt...I know I would have felt being held out. > > What is the downside of this rule, with time we might get a big PMC (after > graduation) and lots of discussions, some see this as negative, I see it as > healthy...Apache is not about a few ruling the project, but the whole > community doing it together. > > I must emphasize, I am NOT suggesting to bend or change any voting rules > but simply to implement a procedure !! > > My suggestion is, that we as community, ask the PPMC to always vote if a > candidate should be PPMC+committer using the strictest voting rules (right > now 3 PPMC +1 and no -1). > > The invitation letter, should be an invitation to join both as committer > and PPMC, but give an option so the candidate can choose only to be a > committer. > > If we want this, it can be implemented in 2 ways: > 1) A convention, where we simply ask the PPMC to always do it like this > - here a vote is not really needed, because the PPMC can decide to follow > it or not. > 2) A Rule, where the PPMC have to do it. > - here a vote is really needed (and one with a clear majority and NONE > against it). > > Thoughts ? > > > rgds > jan i.
