On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 4:31 PM, Paul Davis <[email protected]> wrote: > Perhaps I'm not explaining my expectation well enough. > > The way I read the algorithm, the basic idea is that you take the > weights for each character and concatenate them. then you run throw > these representations and do a basic element wise comparison. > > I know that a and A have the same primary and secondary weights. But > they have different tertiary weights. > > Thus as I read the algorithm (most likely missing the important clause > affecting this) then when I compare a and A, A > a. I don't see why > any other character is considered. A is fucking bigger than a. If > there is a section that says, "Oh, btw, if one string is an exact > prefix of the other as defined solely by primary weights, then the > prefix sorts first" i would be happy as a pig in shit. > > > > On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 7:18 PM, Patrick Antivackis > <[email protected]> wrote: >> Paul, >> >> 2009/4/10 Paul Davis <[email protected]> >> >>> I've tried various combinations of UC_CASE_LEVEL, UC_CASE_FIRST, and >>> UC_WEIGHT. >>> >> >> This is really not enough. Doing this you only try to say to the collation >> that a<<<A or A<<<a (third element) >> but still it's an a upper, lower, witha tilde, with an accent or wathever. >> All are just variation of A but still A. >> >> If you look at : >> http://www.unicode.org/Public/UCA/latest/allkeys.txt >> >> and search for : >> >> 0061 ; [.1141.0020.0002.0061] # LATIN SMALL LETTER A >> >> >> you will see a lot of A definition, but all have the same first element >> :1141, they are all the same letter, other are just variation. So compared >> to each of them they have an order but compared with an other letter they >> all behave the same like an A >> >> So, now if you want to change order of primary element, you need to use >> custom tailoring : >> http://userguide.icu-project.org/collation/customization >> >> And you need to say thing like : >> a < A (primary order) >> So to simulate ASCII behaviour you should try something like : a < b < c <d >> < ......<A <B <C ....., so almost retype the ASCII table. >> >> To be honest, i not tried, but that should work >> > > Let me reiterate. I do *not* want A > b. I want A fucking greater than > a. Or not greater. But this relation: > > a < A < aa > > to me means: > > a < A < a > > Am I the only one that finds that just a bit ridiculous? >
I read it as case-insensitive (aka a == A) except with a deterministic winner (lowercase first) when the only difference between two strings are due to case. > HTH, > Paul Davis > > p.s. the cursing isn't directed at anyone here. I'm just fairly > frustrated by that unicode algorithm. > >> >> >> >> >> >>> Also, I still don't see anything in this damned collation algorithm >>> that explains how A < aa. And this doesn't fall into the big/biggest >>> comparison. The similar case would be Big < biggest. But I don't see >>> anything in the damn collation algorithm document that talks about >>> ignoring anything after primary weight in the case that one string is >>> a prefix. In the various examples that I see I can't find anything >>> that would contradict that expectation. >>> >>> Paul Davis >>> >>> For reference, the algorithm reference I'm using is this one: >>> http://unicode.org/reports/tr10/ >>> >>> I feel like printing the entire thing just so I can have a book burning. >>> >>> On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 6:39 PM, Patrick Antivackis >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> > By the way, what customization did you try to send to ICU ? >>> > >>> > 2009/4/10 Paul Davis <[email protected]> >>> > >>> >> Patrick, >>> >> >>> >> I'm not asking for this relationship: >>> >> >>> >> a < b < A < B >>> >> >>> >> Merely: >>> >> >>> >> a < aa < A >>> >> >>> >> The thing is that even when I try and specify explicitly that 'A; >>> >> should come after 'a' I still can't get the expected "a < aa < A" >>> >> behavior. In a nutshell, "Why the hell does the second 'a' alter the >>> >> comparison?" >>> >> >>> >> HTH, >>> >> Paul Davis >>> >> >>> >> On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 5:45 PM, Patrick Antivackis >>> >> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >> > It's quite normal as far as ICU is concerned. >>> >> > ICU is about language not about ASCII code. >>> >> > In ICU, case is the third element looked for comparison (same level >>> than >>> >> > circled letter in Nordic languages for example), so not very >>> important. >>> >> > So when you sort words together, a or A is still an a, so they are >>> sorted >>> >> > nearby. In ICU you can specify if you prefer a before A or A before a, >>> >> but >>> >> > not simply a before b before c.... before A before B before C. >>> >> > >>> >> > To have such behavior (like ASCII) you need to custom ICU in >>> specifying >>> >> the >>> >> > collation you want almost letter by letter. >>> >> > It is great for you, but what about Japanese users or Arabic users ?? >>> >> > >>> >> > So this is definitely the right behaviour of ICU sorting (collation). >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > 2009/4/9 Brian Candler <[email protected]> >>> >> > >>> >> >> > I've spent entirely too long on this now and I still can't for the >>> >> >> > life of me figure out why A < aa. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Time for an experimental, black-box approach: >>> >> >> >>> >> >> ---- >>> >> >> require 'rubygems' >>> >> >> require 'restclient' >>> >> >> require 'json' >>> >> >> >>> >> >> DB="http://127.0.0.1:5984/collator"; >>> >> >> >>> >> >> RestClient.delete DB rescue nil >>> >> >> RestClient.put "#{DB}","" >>> >> >> >>> >> >> (32..126).each do |c| >>> >> >> RestClient.put "#{DB}/#{c.to_s(16)}", {"x"=>c.chr}.to_json >>> >> >> end >>> >> >> >>> >> >> RestClient.put "#{DB}/_design/test", <<EOS >>> >> >> { >>> >> >> "views":{ >>> >> >> "one":{ >>> >> >> "map":"function (doc) { emit(doc.x,null); }" >>> >> >> } >>> >> >> } >>> >> >> } >>> >> >> EOS >>> >> >> >>> >> >> puts RestClient.get("#{DB}/_design/test/_view/one") >>> >> >> ---- >>> >> >> >>> >> >> This shows the collation sequence to be as follows. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> {"total_rows":95,"offset":0,"rows":[ >>> >> >> {"id":"20","key":" ","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"60","key":"`","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"5e","key":"^","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"5f","key":"_","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"2d","key":"-","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"2c","key":",","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"3b","key":";","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"3a","key":":","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"21","key":"!","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"3f","key":"?","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"2e","key":".","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"27","key":"'","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"22","key":"\"","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"28","key":"(","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"29","key":")","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"5b","key":"[","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"5d","key":"]","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"7b","key":"{","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"7d","key":"}","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"40","key":"@","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"2a","key":"*","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"2f","key":"/","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"5c","key":"\\","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"26","key":"&","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"23","key":"#","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"25","key":"%","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"2b","key":"+","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"3c","key":"<","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"3d","key":"=","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"3e","key":">","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"7c","key":"|","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"7e","key":"~","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"24","key":"$","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"30","key":"0","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"31","key":"1","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"32","key":"2","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"33","key":"3","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"34","key":"4","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"35","key":"5","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"36","key":"6","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"37","key":"7","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"38","key":"8","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"39","key":"9","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"61","key":"a","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"41","key":"A","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"62","key":"b","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"42","key":"B","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"63","key":"c","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"43","key":"C","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"64","key":"d","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"44","key":"D","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"65","key":"e","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"45","key":"E","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"66","key":"f","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"46","key":"F","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"67","key":"g","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"47","key":"G","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"68","key":"h","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"48","key":"H","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"69","key":"i","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"49","key":"I","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"6a","key":"j","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"4a","key":"J","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"6b","key":"k","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"4b","key":"K","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"6c","key":"l","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"4c","key":"L","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"6d","key":"m","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"4d","key":"M","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"6e","key":"n","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"4e","key":"N","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"6f","key":"o","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"4f","key":"O","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"70","key":"p","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"50","key":"P","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"71","key":"q","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"51","key":"Q","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"72","key":"r","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"52","key":"R","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"73","key":"s","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"53","key":"S","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"74","key":"t","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"54","key":"T","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"75","key":"u","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"55","key":"U","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"76","key":"v","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"56","key":"V","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"77","key":"w","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"57","key":"W","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"78","key":"x","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"58","key":"X","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"79","key":"y","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"59","key":"Y","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"7a","key":"z","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"5a","key":"Z","value":null} >>> >> >> ]} >>> >> >> >>> >> >> I've never seen this sequence before. It's not even EBCDIC :-) >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Adding aa into the pot gives: >>> >> >> >>> >> >> ... >>> >> >> {"id":"61","key":"a","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"41","key":"A","value":null}, >>> >> >> {"id":"X","key":"aa","value":null}, >>> >> >> ... >>> >> >> >>> >> >> As you say, that is most bizarre. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Cheers, >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Brian. >>> >> >> >>> >> > >>> >> >>> > >>> >> > -- Chris Anderson http://jchrisa.net http://couch.io
